Jordan Williams

Jordan Williams

Author: RNZ May 22, 2024 Duration: 31:18

Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union tells Guyon about the group's funding, its connection to the Atlas Network, and why he once joined the Green party.

Watch the video version of the episode here.

Jordan Williams is the head of the Taxpayers' Union. With 200,000 members, it’s one of the largest lobby groups in New Zealand.

For the last decade he’s called out wasteful government spending and been a high profile advocate of free speech and transparency.

Guyon Espiner spoke to Jordan Williams about what the Taxpayers' Union is trying to achieve, where it gets its funding, and where it fits in the international movement advocating right wing economic reform.

What is the Taxpayers' Union?

"Well, it's the same pitch as it was when we launched it just over 10 years ago."

"There are hundreds of groups of special interests out there, generally on the centre left, that argue for more money for their particular pet cause. It might be, you know, the protection of the albino snail or whatever. We’re the ones on the other side, to argue for “Mom-and-Pop" taxpayers, the ones that pay the bill.

Until government spending is being spent well, and you've got no government waste, why should we reach deeper into families’ back pockets to tax more?"

"Post-election, we're taking [staffing numbers] a little bit more cautiously, to see where the new equilibrium is. At some point, I think early last year, during the Three Waters debate, I sort of looked and realised, on our payroll, we had 18 staff. This thing started with me, just part time, and then me and a mate."

"We are now the largest, per capita, taxpayer group in the English-speaking world. We’re not quite the largest per capita in the world. The Finns have that, but they've been going, I think, 100 years, and they actually have software that do your taxes. So, it's a little bit of a different business model. They've got quarter of a million financial members."

Donations and Donors

"It is, particularly post-COVID, grassroots fed. More than 80% of our income in 2022 and 2023 is pretty similar. It’s all small donations, online donations, averaging between about $75, $85, depending on the campaign. That’s the bulk of it."

"Sir Bob [Jones] is very generous, and cumulatively, he would be our largest donor because of the office in Wellington, which he donates [rent-free.]"…

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details


In a media landscape often crowded with quick takes and fragmented attention, 30 with Guyon Espiner offers a deliberate alternative. Each episode is built around a single, extended conversation between veteran journalist Guyon Espiner and one person shaping the world we live in. The focus here is on depth, not breadth, allowing for a nuanced exploration of a guest's ideas, experiences, and motivations. As a production from RNZ, this podcast carries a commitment to substantive journalism, presenting these dialogues without editorial cuts or interruptions. What you hear is the full, unfolding discussion-the thoughtful pauses, the challenging questions, and the moments of genuine insight that can only emerge from a sustained, thirty-minute exchange. The guests are drawn from across spheres of influence, including politics, academia, culture, and activism, providing listeners with a direct line to perspectives that inform public life and private conviction. Tuning in means setting aside the noise for a half-hour of focused listening, where the format itself-one guest, no edits-becomes a statement of intent. It’s for anyone who believes that understanding complex figures and issues requires more than a soundbite, preferring instead the texture and authenticity of a complete, unrehearsed conversation.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 43

30 with Guyon Espiner
Podcast Episodes
30 with Guyon Espiner | Trailer [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02
Watch the trailer for 30 with Guyon Espiner - a brand new, in-depth interview show.Watch the video version of the trailer hereAward-winning journalist and presenter Guyon Espiner goes beyond the headlines to deliver one-…
Introducing: 30 with Guyon Espiner [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 3:57
30 with Guyon Espiner is an in-depth interview show featuring some of the most interesting and influential people in our world.Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details