Another Conversation with Clive Betts

Another Conversation with Clive Betts

Author: Samuel Stafford July 22, 2023 Duration: 55:09

Long-serving listeners might recall that for episode 45 of the podcast Sam Stafford published a conversation with Clive Betts, MP for Sheffield South East, about the then Housing, Communities & Local Government Committee’s recently-published report on the future of the planning system in England. Clive chaired that committee and has been involved in housing and planning-related select committees of different names since 2002. He has been a member of parliament since 1992.

That 2021 report, which considered the ‘Planning for the Future’ white paper of August 2020, highlighted concerns about "the lack of detail, which has made it very difficult to assess the possible practical implications” and concluded that “Government should consult on the details of proposed reforms to prevent unintended consequences and harms resulting from them”.

Here we are a couple of years on and the now Levelling Up, Housing & Communities Committee, which Clive still chairs, has published another report on reforms to national planning policy and he very kindly made time to record another online conversation with Sam about it. Their wide-ranging, whistle-stop conversation takes in, amongst the other issues covered by the Committee's inquiry, the politics of the NPPF consultation, housing targets, a 'Plan for England', Green Belt (obviously), the Infrastructure Levy and local authority resources.

Some accompanying reading.

The LUHC Committee’s planning reform report

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/7281/reforms-to-national-planning-policy/publications/

The HCLG Committee’s 2021 planning reform report

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/634/the-future-of-the-planning-system-in-england/publications/

The LUHC Committee’s report on funding for “Levelling Up”

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/6928/funding-for-levelling-up/publications/

Philip Barnes’ blog on abolishing hope value

https://philipbarnesblog.wordpress.com/2023/07/11/is-it-really-the-hope-that-kills-you/

The UK now spends more on housing benefit than on most government departments

https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/11/uk-spending-housing-benefit-government-departments

Gove’s department hands back £1.9bn meant to tackle England’s housing crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/12/gove-department-hands-back-19bn-meant-tackle-england-housing-crisis

Community Infrastructure Levy review: report to government

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/community-infrastructure-levy-review-report-to-government

Some accompanying viewing.

Sam’s evidence to the LUHC Committee’s planning reform inquiry

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/be5501c6-ca1a-4aaf-9c69-f444392df7fd

Some accompanying listening.

Episode 90 of 50 Shades of Planning – No hope?

https://pod.co/50-shades-of-planning/no-hope

Feels Like We Only Go Backwards by Tame Impala (s/o to Simon Ricketts)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycjnCCgUes

50 Shades T-Shirts!

If you have listened to Episode 45 of the 50 Shades of Planning you will have heard Clive say that...

'In the Netherlands planning is seen as part of the solution. In the UK, too often, planning is seen as part of the problem'.

Sam said in reply that that would look good on a t-shirt and it does. Further details can be found here: http://samuelstafford.blogspot.com/2021/07/50-shades-of-planning-t-shirts.html


Samuel Stafford hosts 50 Shades of Planning, a podcast that digs into the often perplexing world of the English planning system. Rather than offering dry policy lectures, these conversations embrace the sector's inherent complexities and occasional absurdities. The aim is to provide a wide-ranging view, bringing in diverse voices from across the fields of planning, property, design, and development. You'll hear from practitioners, thinkers, and critics, each sharing their unique experiences and perspectives on how places are shaped. A recurring series within the podcast, titled 'Hitting The High Notes', features in-depth discussions with leading figures, examining pivotal career moments and influential projects. These talks are structured around six key planning milestones, offering a concrete framework for understanding professional journeys and systemic challenges. By weaving together themes from government, business, arts, and social sciences, this podcast reveals how planning sits at a crowded intersection of politics, economics, and community life. Tune in for thoughtful, sometimes surprising, explorations of the forces that decide what gets built, where, and why.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 164

50 Shades of Planning
Podcast Episodes
Some Things Just Take Time [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:24
Sam Stafford was in London recently and took the opportunity to catch up with old friends of the podcast Mike Kiely, Annie Gingell, Andrew Taylor and Iain Thomson, and new friend of the podcast Claire Tester. In a conver…
New Towns: Practicalities & Placemaking [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:18
New Towns are back in the news because the Government has announced the first formal step in creating the next generation of them with the launch of a public consultation on the draft New Towns Programme and its environm…
All Around the World - The Netherlands [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:40
This is the third of a series of episodes being led by the oldest friend of the podcast, Paul Smith. Paul put it to Sam Stafford that debates about the planning system in England tend, for the most part, to focus solely…
Appeal Ready [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:44
Sam Stafford was in Manchester last week and took the opportunity to catch up with friends of the podcast Lisa Tye, Andrew Johnston and Louise Fountain to discuss some of the issues of the day. In a conversation recorded…
Hitting the High Notes - Catriona Riddell [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:22:25
Strategic planning, as Sam Stafford said in the introduction to episode number 157, is back. That episode looked at what shape it is in right now. What have authorities been able to do whilst awaiting the consolidation o…
We❤️Planning [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:31
Sam Stafford was in Birmingham recently and took the opportunity to record the first ‘catch up’-style episode with some of his friends working in the West Midlands. In a conversation recorded at PodHaus studios, Kathryn…
How Does Bad Policy Get Made? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:07:34
In October 2025 Sam Stafford came across a blog by Jack Airey, who is now a Director at Public First but was the Head of Planning at Policy Exchange and subsequently spent a few years inside Number 10 as a Special Adviso…
The Return of Strategic Planning [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:29
Strategic planning is back. What do we know? We know that Policy PM1 of the revised draft NPPF anticipates the move towards national coverage of Spatial Development Strategies (SDSs), as promised by the end of the parlia…
🏆The #Planoraks Awards 2025🏆 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:22:58
This is the second of Sam Stafford's seasonal offerings which serve as a review of another exciting year in the fast-paced, ever-changing, rock and roll world of town and country planning. Once again Zack Simons kindly b…
🎅🏻The 50 Shades of Planning Festive Christmas Quiz🎄 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:33:17
This episode sees the return of the 50 Shades of Planning Festive Christmas Quiz. Sam Stafford got together with friends of podcast Mike Kiely, Catriona Riddell, Annie Gingell, Andrew Taylor, Nicola Gooch, Shelly Rouse,…