Can 'normalisation of deviance' help to explain a catastrophe?

Can 'normalisation of deviance' help to explain a catastrophe?

Author: ABC Australia February 14, 2026 Duration: 34:37

40 years ago, NASA experienced one of its most devastating disasters.

The Challenger space shuttle disintegrated just 73 seconds after launch, killing all seven crew members.

How had this happened? And did the culture of NASA have anything to do with it?

In this episode, we dig into a concept called 'normalisation of deviance', which has been touted as an explanation for this incident, as well as the Costa Concordia cruise ship disaster and a clinical drug trial that left six people in intensive care.

So what is 'normalisation of deviance'? How does it happen? And given its potential for harm, is there anything we can do to prevent it?

If you enjoyed this episode, check out the latest season of Science Friction, The Challenger Disaster (which is also produced by our senior producer James Bullen!)

Guests:

Dr Nejc SedlarLecturer, University of Aberdeen

Professor Sidney DekkerProfessor, Griffith University

Credits:

  • Presenter: Sana Qadar
  • Senior producer: James Bullen
  • Additional reporting/production: Fiona Pepper
  • Producer: Rose Kerr
  • Sound engineer: Roi Huberman

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

More information:

A qualitative systematic review on the application of the normalization of deviance phenomenon within high-risk industries.

Sidney Dekker — Drift into Failure.

Challenger: the disaster five people saw coming.

The Challenger Legacy — Science Friction.

Has NASA learned anything from the Challenger disaster?

When to trust your gut instinct, and when to ignore it

A deviation from standard design? Clinical trials, research ethics committees, and the regulatory co-construction of organizational deviance


Ever wondered what's really happening inside your head? Each week, All In The Mind from ABC Australia ventures into the complex landscape of human thought and feeling. This isn't just a dry science lecture; it's a thoughtful exploration of the experiences that shape us, hosted by curious minds who know how to tell a compelling story. You'll hear conversations that bridge the gap between scientific research and the messy reality of daily life, delving into topics as diverse as the mechanisms of memory, the challenges of breaking an addiction, or the ethical puzzles posed by artificial intelligence. The discussions are grounded and accessible, making the inner workings of the brain relevant to anyone interested in health, behaviour, or simply understanding themselves a little better. By tuning into this podcast, you join a community considering how our mental universe influences everything from our personal fitness to our social connections. It’s a weekly opportunity to pause and reflect on the fascinating forces-both biological and psychological-that drive what we do and who we are. The production brings together expert insights with genuine human stories, creating a space where complex ideas about the mind and behaviour are unpacked with clarity and depth.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 251

All In The Mind
Podcast Episodes
The confusion about concussions [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:03
Concussions are hard to diagnose, often get missed, and don't always get taken seriously.And if you're not a professional athlete, it can be surprisingly hard to get clear information on how to manage and recover afterwa…
Managing your emotions so they don't manage you [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 31:16
Avoiding your emotions is generally a recipe for disaster — but Ethan Kross makes a case for occasional 'strategic' avoidance.He’s a professor of psychology from the University of Michigan, and he’s appeared in some of o…
Do people really behave differently in a crowd? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 31:25
Panicky. Irrational. Impulsive. These are the traits that have long been associated with crowd behaviour.But modern crowd science suggests that’s an incomplete, if not inaccurate picture.From crowd crushes to terrorist a…
Why do we love collecting? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 29:06
Whether it's stamps, figurines, antiques or toys, plenty of people love collecting. But why?What are the psychological drivers behind the hobby? How much is marketing influencing us, and is there a risk of collecting tur…
Ads, sports and games: how gambling infiltrated Australian culture [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:45
If you're watching sport or browsing social media, odds are you will come across gambling ads. If you work in an office, you might've joined Melbourne Cup or footy tipping comps.In Australia, it can feel like gambling is…
A different kind of grief — what true crime pods often overlook [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 29:56
For years, psychologist Patricia Harney avoided true crime podcasts and documentaries. They hit too close to home.Recently she's been testing the waters, and noticing these whodunnit shows often leave out a crucial eleme…
Love us? Hate us? Take our short audience survey and tell us! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 0:00
All in the Mind is doing its first-ever listener survey — can you tell us a bit about who you are and why you listen? We'd love to understand you better!We’ve kept the survey snappy — it's only seven questions. We’re esp…
The silicon shrink – the worrying side of AI in mental health [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 29:06
Chat bots as therapists. Apps that can track your mood and behaviour, offering earlier detection of psychiatric illness.There's a lot happening at the nexus of mental health and AI – some of it promising, some of it peri…
Dissecting the brain - live at the World Science Festival Brisbane [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 29:37
The brain might be an undiscerning blob that makes up just two per cent of your body, but what it does for you is extraordinary.How much about the day-to-day workings of the brain do we fully understand, and what does th…