The Two Tracks of Justice

The Two Tracks of Justice

Author: Slate Podcasts May 24, 2025 Duration: 1:09:36

This week’s episode attempts to understand the ways in which the law of Trump unfolds along two tracks at the same time. First, Mark Joseph Stern joins us to talk about the Supreme Court’s decision to let Trump fire the heads of independent agencies, undermining a 90-year-old precedent in an unsigned, two-page decision on the shadow docket. This is a case in which Donald Trump’s agenda perfectly aligns with the wishlist of the conservative supermajority that controls the court. But if the court keeps giving Trump free passes to break the law now, why should we expect him to respect the court when it tries to draw the line later?

Then Dahlia Lithwick talks to the University of Chicago’s Aziz Huq about the idea of a “dual state,” a legal arrangement in which seismic changes happen in ways that are not perceptible to the bulk of the citizens. Drawing from the work of a Jewish lawyer who witnessed the dual state operate in Nazi Germany in the 1930s, Huq explains that authoritarians can seize the levers of the law to persecute disfavored groups, without disturbing the idea of the rule of law for the great majority of the nation.

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Dahlia Lithwick guides Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts through the complex and often opaque world of the American legal system. This isn't just a dry recap of rulings; it's a vital exploration of how the law shapes lives, freedoms, and the very fabric of society. The focus frequently rests on the Supreme Court, unpacking the philosophies, personalities, and profound consequences stemming from its nine justices. Each episode seeks to demystify the court's operations and its towering influence on everything from civil rights to everyday governance. You'll hear insightful conversations with legal scholars, journalists, and practitioners who provide clarity on landmark decisions and the simmering cases poised to change the nation. Produced by Slate Podcasts, this series operates with the understanding that justice is not a static concept but a living, breathing, and fiercely debated process. The podcast serves as an essential companion for anyone striving to understand the forces that govern us, offering narrative depth and analytical rigor far beyond the headlines. For those who want to dive deeper, a Slate Plus membership offers additional weekly episodes with extended legal analysis, alongside an ad-free listening experience across Slate's network.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts
Podcast Episodes
Deep Breath, Here We Go [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

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In this extra episode of Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern wade through the immediate aftermath of the election. Will splitting the ticket on abortion protect abortion rights nationally? (No) What will the fe…
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What We’re Watching This New Supreme Court Term [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:30
Democracy had a pretty rough ride at the Supreme Court last term. Presidents have criminal immunity now! Agency experts aren’t the experts anymore! Sure, you can convert that rifle into an automatic weapon! And guess wha…
The Next Supreme Court Gun Fight [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 40:19
In this week's Amicus, Mark Joseph Stern steps in for Dahlia Lithwick to preview the upcoming Supreme Court term and dive into the high-stakes case of Garland v. VanDerStok. This critical case examines the legality of 'g…
The Chief Justice Tips His Hand [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:29
Chief Justice John Roberts has been labeled by some as the serious centrist at the court, and he seemed to embrace and internalize that. But the New York Times’ revelations about behind-the-scenes maneuvers favoring Trum…

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