Why do we still laugh when times are hard? With Ocean Vuong

Why do we still laugh when times are hard? With Ocean Vuong

Author: Penguin Books UK October 2, 2025 Duration: 53:40

I'm looking for a novel that reads like poetry - where should I start? Can you recommend a queer love story with a happy conclusion? What are the best books that explore small-town life? We put your book dilemmas to bestselling author Ocean Vuong and Penguin Editor and award-winning poet Sarah Howe.


Joining Rhianna this week is Ocean Vuong, whose latest book The Emperor of Gladness has been dubbed the first 'millennial Great American Novel' – but what does that really mean, and which classic American novels have inspired him? The author and poet also reflects on the themes and inspirations behind the book, from small-town Connecticut to intergenerational friendships. 


Discover all the books mentioned in this episode here

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Ocean Vuong is an award-winning poet, essayist and novelist. He is the winner of the T. S. Eliot Prize for his poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds, and his debut novel On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous was a literary sensation, going on to sell more than a million copies. Amongst many other accolades, he was a recipient of the MacArthur ‘Genius Grant’ in 2019 and The Whiting Award in 2016. 


The Emperor of Gladness, Vuong’s latest novel, explores themes of chosen family and the ways in which our lives can be changed by the most unexpected people. 


Sarah Howe is Poetry Editor for Chatto & Windus an imprint of Penguin as well as an award-winning author. Sarah’s first collection, Loop of Jade won the T. S. Eliot Prize in 2015, and the Sunday Times Young Writer of the Year award the same year. Her follow-up collection, Foretokens, continues to explore ideas and complications of belonging, identity and inheritance.  


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Ever find yourself staring at a bookshelf, utterly paralysed by choice, or finishing a masterpiece only to feel that peculiar emptiness of not knowing where to go next? Ask Penguin is for that exact moment. Guided by host Rhianna Dhillon, this podcast from Penguin Books UK transforms those universal readerly dilemmas into lively conversation. Each episode tackles real questions from listeners-the quirky, the tricky, the desperately urgent-about what to read next. The answers don’t come from an algorithm, but from genuine dialogue with bestselling authors and the editors, designers, and passionate insiders who help bring books to life. You’ll find yourself revisiting beloved classics with fresh eyes and being introduced to hidden gems you might have otherwise missed. It’s a warm, insightful space that feels like having a brilliant friend in the publishing world, one who knows that a great book recommendation is about more than just plot; it’s about connection, mood, and the next perfect story waiting to crack open your world. Tune in for thoughtful discussions that celebrate the sheer breadth of literature, from page-turning fiction to groundbreaking non-fiction, all within the vibrant landscape of arts and culture. This is where curiosity meets its match, and your next favourite read is always just an episode away.
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