237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist September 2, 2020 Duration: 48:21

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning.

Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell.

[Stormalong Cider cleaning crew episode 237 cider chat

Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong

What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place?

Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation

These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels

What materials to avoid?

Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket.

Chrome parts will always chip.

Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets

What is sanitary?

in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures

Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected. 

Cleaning theory

The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels

  • Time
  • Temperature
  • Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub)
  • Chemical concentration

In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result

Water won't get quite as hot as you like?

  • Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals.
  • Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough.  BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!

Biofilms

  • Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time
  • SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day)
  • A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket

Mentions in this Chat

Contact info for Stormalong

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
189: Put Cider in the Penny | SILO Distillery, VT [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:02
Put Cider in the Penny was recorded at SILO Distillery in Windsor, Vermont in August of 2019. I had been wanting to catch up with Nicole LeGrande Leibon, every since she moved on from making cider at Farnum Hill Cider in…
188: Cider & Wine Safari w/Randall Grahm at Popelouchum [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:16
Before our Popelouchum Safari, hear about... Two New Cider Zines We begin with an overview of Graftwood and Full Juice, two new cider zines out of the United Kingdom. Graftwood is a subscription based quarterly whereas F…
187: We Want More Cider! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:23
"We Want More Cider" was clearly the take away heard from cider enthusiasts attending the annual Hard Core Cider Tour held in Santa Cruz, California June 27, 2019. Sipping Syndicate's Albert Martinez spearheaded the Hard…
186: "Just Fucking Fermented Juice" [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:28
"Just Fucking Fermented Juice" is splayed out in big white letter across the back of Krista Scruggs' black hoodie. The slogan both amuses and taunts gawkers. Krista wore the hoodie with slogan while attending the annual…
185: Who are the Pomme Boots? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:37
Who are the Pomme Boots? The Pomme Boots Society was founded in 2015 an organization for women working in the cider industry. The first meet up of Pommes Boots was at CiderCon2016 held in Portland, Oregon. This episode w…
184: Judging Best in Show | BigE 2019 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:04
The feature on cider judging in this week's episode begins at 9:43 minutes. The 7th annual BigE Cider and Perry competition took place on June 8, 2019. There were 6 cider judges and this episode features the judging of t…
183: Normandy Cider Trail Tips [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:02
Normandy Cider Trail Tips Annie Sargent is the Producer and Host of a fantastic and informative podcast for anyone thinking about traveling to France called "Join Us in France Travel Podcast". In this episode, Annie and…
182: Traditional Straw Pressed Cider | Sanford Orchards, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:17
Discover traditional straw pressing of cider at Sandford Orchards with Barny Butterfield based in Devon. Traditional Straw Pressing Notes: The press is made up with a combination of thatching reeds. If you are familiar w…
181: The Cider Insider | 100 Craft Ciders to Drink Now [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:49
The Cider Insider | 100 Craft Ciders to Drink Now This chat with Susanna and James Forbes was recorded at CiderCon2019, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association known at that time as the Unite…
180: Cider Is Wine | Simon Day, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:21
180: Cider Is Wine | Simon Day of Once Upon a Tree, UK This chat was recorded at CiderCon2019 in Chicago. Simon Day and I did not speak directly on the topic of the "Cider is Wine" debate, but I do suspect that his early…