269: Gross Lees in the Barrel | Ask Ryan 2021

269: Gross Lees in the Barrel | Ask Ryan 2021

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 21, 2021 Duration: 35:13

The Ask Ryan Series is back!

In Spring of 2020 the first Ask Ryan series with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider was posted. This year we return with Ryan once again to dive into more  cidermaking questions. In this segment we return to more questions about oak barrels and cider and the technique known as Bâtonnage.

The question:

Is it okay for gross lees stay in the barrel or is it a good idea to rack out the cider into another barrel to get it off of the gross lees?Ryan Monkman Ryan Monkman

Gross Lees Defined

The sediment that forms on the bottom before fermentation is generally called Gross Lees.

Considering this definition then, once the apples are pressed and before they go into the barrel there can be a drop of the heavy particles in the apple juice before it ferments. Sooo, it could be said that the gross lees are not in the barrel to begin with...or are they?

Heavy Solid Ferments at FieldBird Cider

20% of the ciders that FieldBird makes is done so on the gross lees

Dangers of Gross lees and how to manage

The danger is that heavy solids bind with oxygen

Cure: Manage the oxygen

FieldBird does a rack and return with some of the ciders. This in turn helps with reduction

When to do the Rack and Return?

  • Track the ferment during alcohol fermentation
  • Macro-oxygenation (Macro-Ox) is a technique where one intentionally over oxidizing juice before fermentation

Ryan's Recommendations and Readings on the topic of oxygen and Bret management

Book:

  • Post Modern Winemaking
    • This link above is an affiliate link that cost you nothing to click onto but may provide a kick back to Cider Chat.
  • Ryan recommends getting an oil free air compressor for the hobbyist
    • At FieldBird, they use Food Grade Oxygen

Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider

Mentions in this Chat

 

 


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
488: Vintage Cider Label Lawsuit [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:10
A pending lawsuit spearheaded by Ron Extract of Garden Path Fermentation could change how cider makers label harvest year and "vintage" on cider over 7% ABV. Ron explains why the current TTB rules block truthful harvest-…
487: Further Tales of Chocolate Pears [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:04:00
In This Episode, We Cover Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it) What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they turn fully brown (de…
485: Cider as a Catalyst for Chile's Edible Forest [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:14
Carlos Flores is an architect, landscape designer, and co-founder of Punta de Fierro Fine Cider. At the 2025 CiderCon in Chicago he presented Carlos presented "Developing An Experimental Edible Forest in a Heritage Apple…
484: Rethinking American Cider History with Patrick McCauley [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:09:59
Meet Patrick McCauley, a Michigan-based cider maker and researcher, who is questioning some of the most common myths about American cider history. What Patrick uncovers is a far more regional, farm-based, and resilient c…
483: The Talking Pomme's Grand Winter Party [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 14:23
Enjoy this annual winter tale from Cider Chat Central! In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Talking Pommes Grand Winter Party is more than j…
482: FLX Cider & Cheese Pairing with Cheesemonger Rachel Freier [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:53
At the New York Cider Fest in November, there were 2 Cider and Cheese sessions. Cider Chat Emcee Ria Windcaller attended one featuring ciders from 4 different makers. This cider and cheese pairing was led by Rachel Freie…
481: Totally Cider Tour: A Merry Visit to Tom Oliver's [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:34
Tom Oliver is delightfully talented, mischievously witty, and not only a renowned cider maker but also a top-notch perry maker. He may say, "If you're going to make perry and work with pears, you've already identified yo…
480: Holiday Cider Gift Guide 2025 and Playing with Pommeau [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:36
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview 00:32 French Pronunciation Fun 02:27 Holiday Gift Ideas for 2025 02:59 Cider Chat News and Updates 04:42 Listener Stories and Experiences 07:49 Upcoming UK Cider Tour 2026 12:47 Fe…
479: New York Cider Fest | Audio Snapshots [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:45
New York Cider Fest 2025 brought together makers and enthusiasts for an unforgettable day at City Winery Manhattan. In this special collection of on-the-floor recordings, Cider Chat® captures Audio Snap Shots with festiv…