279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist July 7, 2021 Duration: 37:57

An Apology? By a Cider Judge

Busted! I am the cider judge who has been holding onto a memory from nearly 20 years ago. At that time there were very few commercial makers of cider and in turn there were very few entries into competitions. The apology stems from my time back then when I was one of the rare cider judges here in the states, thinking I knew something about cider. Looking back now I keep repeating the same phrase -

"I wish I knew then, What I know now... about cider."

The competition was called the Great International Beer & Cider Competition, but honestly I don't think cider was even included in the name in 2003 or 2004.  Despite that, we had three ciders to judge and likely 300+ beers.

Why an Apology?

Up to that point I had only tasted cider made here in the states. Despite having 10 years of experience with cider, I had no idea what a Normandy apple or cider tasted like. UK ciders were definitely not a thing in the US and are only recently becoming more available. It is only more recently that I had the pleasure of traveling to Asturias and experiencing Sidra. This has led me to believe that: A cider judge needs to not only drink a lot of cider, but also travel to the location where it is made to taste both the cider and the juice from which that cider is made.

It is all about the Juice!

The Billionaire's Apology279 apology to a billionaire feature 300x200

For years I knew that I had misjudged that cider back in the early 2000s and that became even more acutely true for me as I began to travel to Europe and taste the makers products at the site where they are made. Thus, when I got the opportunity to talk to the man who owned the brand "Hard Core" and to absolve myself from that misjudging I jumped at the chance.

Hard Core was launched  in 1997 and lasted up to 2011. It was under the umbrella of the Boston Beer Company which was founded by Jim Koch in 1984. I met Jim Koch this past June of 2021 and took that opportunity to apologize. Once down, I felt an immense about of relief, because I know that a cidery really relies on the words of judges, especially at a time when there were so few cideries.

But I won't say that it didn't feel totally great, especially when he told me that they were importing French and Italian apples for the Hard Core brand. That news compounded the sense of my misjudging even further again...if I knew then what I knew now I know I would have judged that cider differently.

Lesson learned from the Apology

  • Cider judges need to travel more to the producers or regions where the product is made.
  • Taste the juice of a single varietal apple or a blend - get to know the difference of that apple being grown in one region vs another.
  • Once you have tasted the juice then taste the cider. This step will help the judge fully realize the full potential of where the cider came from and where it can go. It will open nuances that would otherwise not be detected.

All makers should offer juice at their cideries!

Mentions in this chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
218: FieldBird Cider | Canada: Covid Time Update [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:57
Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider based in Prince Edward County provides an overview of Canada's response to the Covid-19 crisis gripping the world in this episode. Ryan's chat begins at approximately 11:49 minutes into th…
217: Omnia Era of Cider | Pommes in Art [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 25:54
Let's search for the fruit of the story from the Renaissance era to the often-bizarre works of the Mannerist painter of that time. We are exploring how history is repeating itself in our cups of cider in this edition of…
216: Alex Ionov | Rebel Apple, Moscow [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:30
In 2015, there was a windfall of apples in Russian. That moment helped to catapult "The Land of Antonovka" into the cider spotlight world wide. Episode 216 Featured guest is Alexander Ionov of Rebel Apple Cider of Moscow…
CCLive: Helping Cider in Covid Time w/ACA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 19:17
Hear what the ACA and the USA's regional associations are doing to help members while their businesses are shuttered during quarantine. Cider Chat Live: Helping Cider in Covid Time w/ACA Recorded March 19, 2020 with Amer…
215: Andy Hallett of Hallet Cider | UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:49
Join the Talking Pommes and I, as we "Flip the bird" to the Coronavirus! Yes, "feck off" to the virus by signing up now for the upcoming England Cider Tour September 1-6, 2020. 215: Andy Hallett of Hallet Cider | UK Andy…
214: Cider is 'Art + Science' w/Kim & Dan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:42
Cider as Art + Science w/Kim & Dan Kim says, "We consider ourselves a natural cider, Perry and wine company. Our products start with the farming; sourcing quality fruit that is ecologically farmed is important to us. We…
213: The Sleeping Giant has Awoken [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:11
Who is the Sleeping Giant? France, of course! The cider regions in Normandy and Brittany are steeped in tradition and rich with select apples and pears that showcase a very specific terroir from each of the appellations.…
212: Northeastern Cider Conference~Scoop! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:44
The Northeastern Cider Conference will take place March 24, 25, 26, 2020 in Albany, NY. Register now - Get group discount for Hotel now through February Tuesday March 24th begins with a kick off with a opening toast and…
211: Tales from CiderCon2020 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:21
Enjoy these Snapshots of Tales from CiderCon2020 which details a bit of what I experienced both before the conference, while on the Parajo Valley Cider Tour and then my recap on CiderCon held in Oakland. Thank you to San…
210: Cider Ireland w/Stonewell Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:16
Daniel Emerson discusses his Irish cider brand Stonewell Cider and Cider Ireland, a trade association for Irish cider makers. The American Cider Association annual trade conference CiderCon2020 had the following Irish Ma…