279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist July 7, 2021 Duration: 37:57

An Apology? By a Cider Judge

Busted! I am the cider judge who has been holding onto a memory from nearly 20 years ago. At that time there were very few commercial makers of cider and in turn there were very few entries into competitions. The apology stems from my time back then when I was one of the rare cider judges here in the states, thinking I knew something about cider. Looking back now I keep repeating the same phrase -

"I wish I knew then, What I know now... about cider."

The competition was called the Great International Beer & Cider Competition, but honestly I don't think cider was even included in the name in 2003 or 2004.  Despite that, we had three ciders to judge and likely 300+ beers.

Why an Apology?

Up to that point I had only tasted cider made here in the states. Despite having 10 years of experience with cider, I had no idea what a Normandy apple or cider tasted like. UK ciders were definitely not a thing in the US and are only recently becoming more available. It is only more recently that I had the pleasure of traveling to Asturias and experiencing Sidra. This has led me to believe that: A cider judge needs to not only drink a lot of cider, but also travel to the location where it is made to taste both the cider and the juice from which that cider is made.

It is all about the Juice!

The Billionaire's Apology279 apology to a billionaire feature 300x200

For years I knew that I had misjudged that cider back in the early 2000s and that became even more acutely true for me as I began to travel to Europe and taste the makers products at the site where they are made. Thus, when I got the opportunity to talk to the man who owned the brand "Hard Core" and to absolve myself from that misjudging I jumped at the chance.

Hard Core was launched  in 1997 and lasted up to 2011. It was under the umbrella of the Boston Beer Company which was founded by Jim Koch in 1984. I met Jim Koch this past June of 2021 and took that opportunity to apologize. Once down, I felt an immense about of relief, because I know that a cidery really relies on the words of judges, especially at a time when there were so few cideries.

But I won't say that it didn't feel totally great, especially when he told me that they were importing French and Italian apples for the Hard Core brand. That news compounded the sense of my misjudging even further again...if I knew then what I knew now I know I would have judged that cider differently.

Lesson learned from the Apology

  • Cider judges need to travel more to the producers or regions where the product is made.
  • Taste the juice of a single varietal apple or a blend - get to know the difference of that apple being grown in one region vs another.
  • Once you have tasted the juice then taste the cider. This step will help the judge fully realize the full potential of where the cider came from and where it can go. It will open nuances that would otherwise not be detected.

All makers should offer juice at their cideries!

Mentions in this chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
079: Dan Young | Tandem Ciders, Michigan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:19
Tandem Ciders is the result of two hearts coming together in one spot of Ciderville (the east coast) and finding their way to Michigan. In the late 1990's Dan Young who was the co-owner and brewer at The People's Pint in…
078: Oscar Garcia Busto | Mayador, Asturias [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:57
The Mayador cider brand came about from a lot hard work and ingenuity. Manuel Busto Amandi born in 1906 founded his cider business originally as M.Busto in 1939. Between that time and 1966, Manuel's ingenuity kept the bu…
077: US Cider Trends 2017 | Nielsen Data of Cider Market [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:47
The US cider market share in 2017 is growing. This episode on Cider Trends in the US and abroad is a replay of a webinar from April 5, 2017 presented by Danny Brager and Matthew Crompton of the Nielsen Company. The webin…
076: Lou and Sue Chadwick | Grafting at Second Chance Farm, MA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:22
Lou and Sue Chadwick of Second Chance Farm in Greenfield Massachusetts are what I consider the "Apple Pied Pipers". For nearly as long as CiderDays (the oldest cider event in the US) has been running I have seen the Chad…
075: Alan Shapiro | Cider Summit, USA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:27
Alan Shapiro wasn't looking to get involved in cider, being a craft beer enthusiast, one sip at the right time changed his mind and he isn't looking back. He is founder of the widely popular Cider Summits that takes plac…
074: Nicole and Rafe Ward | Forgotten Ciders, Michigan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:13
Nicole and Rafe Ward of Forgotten Ciders are celebrating 3 years of cidermaking this April of 2017. This Michigan cidery has over 1000 variety of apples growing on 16 acres, many of which are cider varieties and red fles…
073: Shea A.J. Comfort | The Yeast Whisper [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:20
The Yeast Whisper's Back Story Having read extensively the books of the day he is, suffice to say, a self taught technical yeast expert. "You realize you have to get some type of competency in science…basic formulas, con…
072: Lost Apples of the Quabbin | Massachusetts [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:21
Lost Apples of the Quabbin is a presentation by Al Sax and Matt Kaminsky documenting their 2016 research and quest for mapping out the apple trees in this historical reservoir region. The Quabbin Reservoir was created to…
071: Jeppe Gents | Fejø Cider, Denmark [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:15
Jeppe Gents opened Fejø Cider in 1999. He calls himself a "cider farmer" having founded his cidery on an island 200 kilometers south of Copenhagen. You can take a 15-minute ride on a ferry to the island and visit this ce…
070: Mattie Beason | Black Twig Cider House, North Carolina [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:48
Mattie Beason's passion for cider led him to open Black Twig Cider House in 2016. This new cider bar is located in Durham, North Carolina right across the street from Duke University. A good location is a key factor as y…