279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist July 7, 2021 Duration: 37:57

An Apology? By a Cider Judge

Busted! I am the cider judge who has been holding onto a memory from nearly 20 years ago. At that time there were very few commercial makers of cider and in turn there were very few entries into competitions. The apology stems from my time back then when I was one of the rare cider judges here in the states, thinking I knew something about cider. Looking back now I keep repeating the same phrase -

"I wish I knew then, What I know now... about cider."

The competition was called the Great International Beer & Cider Competition, but honestly I don't think cider was even included in the name in 2003 or 2004.  Despite that, we had three ciders to judge and likely 300+ beers.

Why an Apology?

Up to that point I had only tasted cider made here in the states. Despite having 10 years of experience with cider, I had no idea what a Normandy apple or cider tasted like. UK ciders were definitely not a thing in the US and are only recently becoming more available. It is only more recently that I had the pleasure of traveling to Asturias and experiencing Sidra. This has led me to believe that: A cider judge needs to not only drink a lot of cider, but also travel to the location where it is made to taste both the cider and the juice from which that cider is made.

It is all about the Juice!

The Billionaire's Apology279 apology to a billionaire feature 300x200

For years I knew that I had misjudged that cider back in the early 2000s and that became even more acutely true for me as I began to travel to Europe and taste the makers products at the site where they are made. Thus, when I got the opportunity to talk to the man who owned the brand "Hard Core" and to absolve myself from that misjudging I jumped at the chance.

Hard Core was launched  in 1997 and lasted up to 2011. It was under the umbrella of the Boston Beer Company which was founded by Jim Koch in 1984. I met Jim Koch this past June of 2021 and took that opportunity to apologize. Once down, I felt an immense about of relief, because I know that a cidery really relies on the words of judges, especially at a time when there were so few cideries.

But I won't say that it didn't feel totally great, especially when he told me that they were importing French and Italian apples for the Hard Core brand. That news compounded the sense of my misjudging even further again...if I knew then what I knew now I know I would have judged that cider differently.

Lesson learned from the Apology

  • Cider judges need to travel more to the producers or regions where the product is made.
  • Taste the juice of a single varietal apple or a blend - get to know the difference of that apple being grown in one region vs another.
  • Once you have tasted the juice then taste the cider. This step will help the judge fully realize the full potential of where the cider came from and where it can go. It will open nuances that would otherwise not be detected.

All makers should offer juice at their cideries!

Mentions in this chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
029: At The Hop | Oliver's Cider and Perry, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:07:49
Tom Oliver shares his approach to hopped cider and the best of what the US and UK have to look forward to in the cider market. What he saw in US hopped ciders back in 2013 ignited his desire to try his hand at adding hop…
028: John Bunker | Apple Identification [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:48
When John Bunker talks or teaches Apple Identification he doesn't begin with the apple. He always goes back to the root of the tree…unless it is one of the Eric Clapton apples, i.e., you immediately recognize it as a var…
027: Aaron Anderson | Austin Eastciders, Texas [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:14
Austin Eastciders is helping to make Austin Texas a cider mecca in a land where the apple root faces harsh growing conditions. Aaron Anderson is the R&D Coordinator at this growing cidery. He sat down for a chat with me…
026: Neil Worley | Worleys Cider, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:28
Keeving Made Simple, but oh so Dandy at Worleys Cider Neil Worley's makes cider in the area of Great Britain called Somerset. Climb the high hill at the farm and your can see the Bristol Channel. It is a remote location…
025: Jim Wallace | Cider Pairing with a Cheese Maker [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:51
Jim Wallace is a cheese maker and cheese tech a.k.a the "Cheese Guru" at New England Cheesemaking Supply in Ashfield Massachusetts. When not helping the cheese world sort through problematic cheeses, he teaches classes a…
024: Leonard Koningswijk | Bear Cider, Netherlands [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:29
Leonard Koningswijk owner/cidermaker of Bear Cider in the Netherlands is turning his country towards cider one palate at a time. The idea was sprouted at his family home in the rural village of Beerze on the border of Ge…
023: Alec Steinmetz | Buskey Cider, Virginia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:04
Alec Steinmetz, Will Correll and Matthew Meyer are sharing their story of starting an urban cidery. This is Part 1 of what will be an ongoing story of the start-up Buskey Cider of Richmond, Virginia. The cidermaking tank…
022: Gregory Hall | Virtue Cider, Michigan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:17
Getting to cider for Gregory Hall, was one part luck and a whole lot of beer. When his father John Hall founded the Chicago based Goose Island Brewery in 1988, it took only 3 years before Greg was at the helm of brewing.…
021: Bill Bradshaw | Bill Bradshaw Photography, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:21
Bill Bradshaw is a photographer, an author of three cider books and consider by many to be a Cider Ambassador for UK ciders. I met with Bill at the United States Association of Cider Makers annual conference in Portland…
020: Curtis Sherrer | Millstone Cellars, Maryland [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:58
Curtis Sherrer is barreling aging single variety apples at Millstone Cellars. An old grist mill dating back to the 1850s houses the Tasting Room. "We will have 50 barrels and then settle on 15 to pick from to blend for t…