345: Co-Fermenting Cider & Beer | Four Phantoms Brewery, MA

345: Co-Fermenting Cider & Beer | Four Phantoms Brewery, MA

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist November 23, 2022 Duration: 48:42

Four Phantoms Looks to Historical Co-Ferments

Head Brewer and owner Drew Phillips of Four Phantoms Brewery in Greenfield Massachusetts spoke on Folks Traditions and the Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice and the brewery's co-ferment called Old Gods (8.0%). There were two talks on the subject, with the first being November 3rd and the second on November 6th as part of CiderDays 2.0 compilation of events. This episode is from the November 6th presentation.

ep:345 four phantoms co-ferment

Drew is no stranger to fermenting having spent time brewing first in Oregon and then as Head Cidermaker at Artifact Cider Project in Florence, Massachusetts before opening Four Phantoms over two years ago.

His interest in old brewing traditions and recipes has him pushing the envelope with special ferments and Old Gods is a great representation of what can be done, when done well. (Read: Old Gods is delicious!!)

345 Four Phantoms outside building

 

Folk Traditions Around Co-fermenting Cider and Beer

Drew notes that historically there wasn't such a delineation between beer, cider and mead as there is now. He notes how that in Wassail songs , the call for mixing cider, beer and elderberry boughs all into the same beverage. The use of Hydrometers or the science of acid titration are recent adaptations to a farmhouse fermenter's tool box.

Up until the 19th century fermenters would brew by taste and if the wort didn't taste good you would grind up more grain and mash it in, which is a classic way of brewing a farmhouse ale. - Brew by Taste.

Drew notes the difference between wort (the base of beer) and apple juice the base for cider. For yeast health fermenters are looking for YAN (Yeast Assimiable Nutrients). In apple juice there isn't alot of YAN whereas with Wort there is alot.  Thus Farmers would ferment Farmhouse ales and often blended in fresh pressed apple juice. 

No Heat Ferment

Other than the sparing that taste place with the grain used for beer, there is no boiling of the wort as is typical with brewing. Thus, a farmhouse ale can be easily blended in with apple juice to create this co-ferment concoction. 

The Making of Old Gods at Four Phantoms

  • 100 gallons of unpasteurized Mcintoush apple juice.
  • No yeast inoculation
  • Blend in with Raw ale - typical farmhouse style
    • The wort was not boiled -
    • No hops
    • Mashed into a whole mash tun of birch branches

The result is a tasting drink that blends the two products together. Make sure to try Old Gods at Four Phantoms each fall. 

Contact info for Four Phantoms Brewery

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There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

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