Separation of Church and State Was a Baptist Idea. What Happened?

Separation of Church and State Was a Baptist Idea. What Happened?

Author: Institute of Religion Politics and Culture, Amanda Henderson, Iliff School of Theology May 4, 2026 Duration: 29:01
The Baptist preacher (and Texas Lieutenant Governor) who stood before the White House Religious Liberty Commission had a message: there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. That's a shift... For two centuries, Baptists didn't just support the wall of separation between church and state — they built it. They famously asked Thomas Jefferson for it. And then as recently as 1960, Southern Baptist leaders argued that a Catholic president would surely subordinate the Constitution to the Pope. This devotion to a secular state was deep. But that was then, this is now... Baylor University historian Elesha Coffman suggests Southern Baptists have become the very force they feared Catholics would be — a dominant religion using political power to shape society along theological ideals. According to Coffman, the receipts are right there in the historical record.  In this episode, Amanda Henderson talks with Coffman about her recent article, Southern Baptists have become what they once feared Catholics would be, about the winding path from Jefferson's reply to the Danbury Baptists, through the founding of a prominent anti church-state separation organization, through Ronald Reagan telling a room full of evangelical leaders, "I know you can't endorse me, but I endorse you," all the way to Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick declaring the wall never existed. The question underneath it all: is this hypocrisy, strategy, or evolution? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Complexified is a conversation that starts from a simple, uncomfortable truth: the forces of faith and power are woven into the fabric of our everyday existence, from kitchen tables to courtrooms. Hosted by Amanda Henderson of the Iliff School of Theology and presented by the Institute of Religion Politics and Culture, this podcast deliberately steps into the tangled intersections where belief systems meet policy, cultural norms, and social strife. We move beyond superficial debates to examine how these deep structures actually function, why certain problems feel so immovable, and where the possibilities for genuine movement might lie. Each episode is an effort to untangle a specific, knotty issue, listening for the underlying narratives and historical currents that often go unspoken. The goal isn't to provide easy answers but to foster a more nuanced comprehension, the kind required for meaningful engagement rather than repeated conflict. Tuning into this podcast means joining a rigorous yet accessible exploration of our shared life, acknowledging the complexity so often glossed over in public discourse. It’s an invitation to think more deeply about the roots of our divisions and the potential pathways forward, grounded in the conviction that clearer understanding is a necessary first step toward any durable change.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Complexified
Podcast Episodes
A Dictator Was Seized. The Pope Spoke. Everyone Else Paused. [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 25:31
Religious leaders stayed mostly silent when the U.S. seized a foreign dictator — except for the pope. Religious leaders stayed mostly silent when the U.S. grabbed Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro and flew him to New Y…
Faith, Fame, and the Feed: How Influencers Shape What We Believe [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 22:38
In a world where attention is authority, who gets to shape faith, values, and public life? What does it actually mean to be an influencer in 2025 — and why does it matter so much for religion and politics? In this episod…
How One Abuse Story Changed a Reporter [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 18:55
Sometimes a story breaks you open. While reporting on abuse and accountability inside the Southern Baptist Convention, RNS journalist Bob Smietana reached out to someone he’d interviewed many times before — publisher and…
The Conservative Christian Momfluencer Machine [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 25:39
What if your favorite wholesome mom account was also your quietest political radicalizer? Earlier this year, RNS Editor Roxanne Stone was in Austin, Texas talking about tradwife influencers—women whose soft, nostalgic ae…
From Pink to Waterproof: The Weird Economics of U.S. Bible Sales [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 28:06
A paradox: declining churchgoing, rising Bible sales. Americans are attending church less—and buying more Bibles than ever. In this Complexified conversation, Amanda Henderson and RNS reporter Bob Smietana unpack the par…
Beyond Identity Politics: The Mamdani Method in New York [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 23:21
What happens when a Muslim mayor-elect treats identity as a bridge, not a brand? In this episode of Complexified, Amanda Henderson explores the story of Zoran Mamdani, New York City’s first Muslim mayor-elect—a politicia…
Chainsaws, Catechism, and Courage: How One Parish Grew Through Crisis [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 22:52
In a dusty parking lot, worship meets organizing as a community faces ICE—and refuses to disappear. In Vista, California, a Catholic parish that worships outdoors has become a refuge and a rallying point: 13,000 people o…