这期节目主播和Richard介绍我们是如何为一个面积很有限的小书店选书的。这期节目依然适用慢速、简单英文录制，下面是我们的录音稿文字，是通过 otter.ai 整理，希望对大家有所帮助。
Yifan
Did you listen to the last episode, your first podcast?
Richard
Once I could bet to hear myself recorded?
Yifan
How many times?
Richard
Once? All right, did you show this to your parents? Nope. Your girlfriend? Nobody? I don't think, Oh, actually, no, my girlfriend sent the culture potato podcast link to one of her friends. Just to tell him about, oh, we're doing this bookshop and I'm doing you know, we're doing this bookshop together. And this is a guy who's like, an I was obsessed, well obsessed with all sorts of things. But when she knew him, when the window in the living together, he was obsessed with learning Mandarin. So she said, Oh, here's a podcast for you. It's Richard's friends podcast. And then she probably said the list and maybe further down he saw, you might have seen because you did two more episodes to three more episodes since. So he might have noticed that one. Okay, I don't know if he went there.
Yifan
Okay, so this week, we want to talk about our book choices, you know, as a bookshop, how we choose books. But before we get into all that, can you talk about perhaps the most memorable book you read in 2020? Well,
the book I've chosen for this is probably it will be crashed by Adam Tooze, which is a book about the financial crisis of 2008. And it actually came out in 2018, as a 10 year anniversary, but I finally read it during lockdown. He's a professor of financial history. So there's a lot of data, a lot of material, yet it reads like a thriller.
So it's heading to a Netflix.
Yeah, it could, it could head to Netflix. But I'm thinking it also, didn't you read? too big to fail? Yes, I did. When it came out, and maybe it's like that as well. Although, because then that isn't that supposed to be super readable and reads like a thriller and so forth? and Netflix material, potentially?
Yeah. Is that that's even HBO material? I would say.
Yeah. So yeah, that probably finally getting around to reading that, from one year from one economic crisis to a health crisis.
And what is the conclusion? Has anything changed? In the 10 years? Since?
I'm not sure, really, there's a bit of optimism, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Okay. But personally, in the last 10 years, you know, one of the big actors in the 2008 financial crisis is Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan. And over the last 10 odd years, I have seen a big transformation in his attitude and to a certain extent, reputation. He has embraced at least superficially. A lot of the new ideas that's that was fermenting in the business world. Yeah. The moving away from maximising shareholder value to to more of a socialist outlook, to the extent that it is possible that, you know, the care for society for employees. I don't know, does the book talk about this?
Richard
No, no, no, no, not not really less of a thing.
Yifan
So even if England is still in full lockdown mode, however, in the background, we are busying you know, compiling lists of books who are going to order and to to fill our shelves. So as the general manager, Richard, can you talk about how you are approaching this, how we are picking our books and how we are presenting it to them to our customers?
Richard
Sure, looking at the fact that we're somewhat constricted by space, and we obviously can't stock every single book that's out there and buy every single genre, like you would in a big bookshop with obviously selecting what we like, but also books that people think are relevant, whether they're classic works of literature, or authoritative works of nonfiction. And some of these recommendations, we're also taking from what we've read in reviews or whether it's from people discussing books in science. on social media, or on podcasts, or even books that public figures recommend.
Yifan
So in a way we are mimicking, or were thinking about how most general readers would come across a book, they might have read it in the newspaper or through word of mouth, or, you know, their favourite YouTubers talking about it. That's the that's the idea.
Richard
Yeah. And maybe with a certain emphasis on various influences, who recommend books, whether again, the, their newspapers, or, you know, traditional book reviewers, like the London Review of Books, or the times literary supplement, to YouTubers who review books, or public figures, you publish lists of books, and so forth.
Yifan
Cool. I imagine we might even organise our bookshelves according to these influencers who recommend the books. And I know that for this week's programme you have prepared, for example, book lists that you know, that's right, wait, we are working on? Can you briefly introduce the four book lists?
Richard
So we got two lists by public figures, probably none of them need much introduction. One is Bill Gates, the formerly richest man in the world. The other one is Barack Obama, formerly the American president, who periodically published their lists of books that they've recently read, as it was the end of 2020. They both did a round up and published the list of books for Christmas. So those are those two lists, and then rather differently, we're going to talk about a radio programme start the week, which is a key radio programme or podcast from the BBC, that talks about books or that talks to people who have written books, and introduces the subject matter. And then one final list will be by a YouTuber, who presents and reviews, various works of fiction, which could be considered classics, 20th century classics or even, you know, even cult classic books.
Yifan
What's the name of this YouTuber?
Richard
So yeah, his name is so his YouTube channel is better than food. And he's a man named Clifford Lee Sargent. And he lives he seems to periodically move about America. I think the latest count us in Portland, Oregon.
Yifan
Yeah, so let's dive into the these four very different and hopefully interesting book lists to give our audience that flavour. Let's start with Bill Gates, Bill Gates. I imagine he would. He's a tech guy. And he's, since he left Microsoft. He's running a globally powerful foundation. He's also at the centre of some of the of the most topical conspiracy theories around.
Richard
Yeah,
Yifan
it's it's no laughing matter. But what kind of books has Bill Gates chosen? In 2020?
Richard
Yeah, sure. So he's got five books. They're all nonfiction, all on different topics. But one you could say is, is somewhat related to Black Lives Matter. It's called The New Jim Crow: Mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness by Michelle Alexander. Jim Crow being the the laws the racial segregation laws that used to apply in the American deep south. Another title is range why generalists triumph in a specialised world by David Epstein. Then we got the splendid and the vile, a saga of Churchill family and defiance during the Blitz by Eric Larson, the spy in the traitor, the greatest espionage story of the Cold War by Ben MacIntyre. And then finally, we have breath from salt, a deadly genetic disease, a new era in science and the patients and families who changed medicine by bcl two ready. So these are the five books. So one of them the splendid and the vile of saga of Churchill family and defiance during the Blitz by Eric Larsen, which is set up in 1940s 1942. When London and other cities in Britain were bombed by the German Air Force. I think he ties this into sort of how people experience the Blitz. In a kind of parallel way to how people are experiencing lockdown due to COVID. You know, as he says the the fear and the anxiety they felt, even if probably the Blitz was a lot more frightening than even COVID. Now we got the book about generalists range where generalists triumph in a specialised world, where he argues companies do better off employing people who have more breadth than people, then having too many people focused on a very narrow subject. For instance, I think Roger Federer seems to be the the author's a big example of how he started playing several sports before really becoming a big tennis star. Breath from Salt at a deadly genetic disease, a new era in science and the patients and families who changed medicine. Sorry, the subject matter of this book is a pet project of his in that it's about research into cystic fibrosis, which is something he's been involved in a message of hope, I suppose. Is there any would appeal to you?
Yifan
Not really, no. Not at all, perhaps the Ben MacIntyre book on the spy and the traitor but in a way I would, I would just Google and Wikipedia, you know, the spies name, and read all about it. You know, but one interesting I would say is, I think Bill Gates is a massively respected figure in the tech world and beyond. And he's someone a nerd, turned humanitarian. And sometimes we imagine nerds or people in Silicon Valley to be reading about coding about big trends in the industry. And right, yeah, or about future, right, like about gurus books about the future. But I think really the best minds in tech, like the best minds in business, they really have a very wide range of appetites in, in their reading, and I think this list illustrates that quite well. Yeah. Especially if he's in the business of giving money out to, to solve the world's problems. He needs to understand the world's problems and the context in which they arise. And the underlying mechanisms or just to understand the world better and deeper. And I think this Yeah, I would say it's a it's a good list. Personally. It's not my interest for lockdown reading. Yeah. But but then let's move to a somewhat perhaps different it's a very different person, you know, by no means a nerd. So it's President Obama.
What What has he been reading?
Maybe first thing we should say about Obama is that he's now he's got his new book out, which is done very well. And he sees himself as very much a man of a man of letters, somebody who'd like you. He likes his books he's seriously into he's always been into reading a thoughtful person, perhaps a thoughtful person. Yeah. And he looked at his list, we won't go through the whole thing. There are many more titles than Bill Gates. 15, let's say, a mix of fiction and nonfiction. A lot of them I'd say, probably very, for an American president, very American centric, a lot to do the American experience whether it's fictionalised or, or not. So there's a Chinese American perspective story. There's, you know, South Asian American, there's obviously an afro American, that kind of drive. Otherwise, there are more say, more straight non fiction in to do again, with this one. It looks interesting cast, the origins of our discontents. But Isabel Wilkinson Wilkerson's right, where she contracts a sort of social and Rachel describes the social and racial system in America and includes it or uses the caste system in India, as well as Nazi Germany to describe Yeah, sociological and racial differences in America. There's even a debut on here. Fiction Again, I think it's a lustre by Raven leahlani, which I think is add some, some good reviews some high praise about a young Afro American woman in New York again in the midst of all that's going on at the moment, politically. Yeah, there's also a thing about Latino or Latin x Americans. And this is a work of nonfiction as somebody who's surveyed undocumented Americans, which is the title of the book, the undocumented Americans by capital up codenamed Villa a few cents you. Aside from that there's also a book about the twilight of democracy, the failure of politics and the parting of friends by Anna Applebaum.
I have this book, Anne Applebaum.
Maybe I miss wrote it. I don't know. We can double check that,
because she's the famous author wrote about the gulags in Russia. Yeah. And she's like the only conservative columnist in the New York Times for a while I think. All right. I want to pick out something that you mentioned what people call in quotation mark the American experience. Yeah. You know, it's about, for example, they C Pam Zhang, how much of these hills is gold? I know that she's a, she's an immigrant. She's part of an immigrant family from Beijing. But this is a fiction. I think it goes back in history. It's about how a Chinese family during during the Gold Rush, right. That's right. And there are, as you say, that the undocumented Americans. So it's about searching for a better life dealing with the inequalities in America, and about pursuing the American dream, I suppose. Yeah. Considering Obama's political background, and racial background. I'm not criticising Bill Gates. Bill Gates, doesn't talk about maybe these issues are too controversial. I don't know.
Richard
Yeah. What do you have the Michelle Alexander book, and I suppose what I mean, Obama, the other hand doesn't have much science or anything to, you know, in that in that kind of realm. He's also got this the splendid and the vile, the saga of church or family in defiance stream, the Blitz by Erik Larson. So Bill Gates and Obama cross over on that book. Yeah. What was I gonna say? Oh, yeah, there's one book which is set in Hawaii. Right. Yeah. which follows his book about his own upbringing there. And that is sharks in the time of saviours by kawhi and kawhi. Strong Washburn? interesting name. Yeah. kawhi. Sounds like my idea of somebody from Hawaii, but I don't know. Right?
Yifan
Not Japan. Okay.
Richard
Well, yeah, exactly. I'm not sure what else to add, it seems like, you know, a very sort of American presidents list, sort of. Except Now, having said that thinking if Trump Look, look, look nothing like this.
Yifan
I think Trump is reading legal defence for Dummies. How to appeal this court. Anyway. Let's move on. You prepared another two lists that's coming from the podcast, YouTube. Universe, can you shall we start with start the week the you mentioned, it's a BBC programme. Can you talk about what kind of podcasts This is?
Richard
Yes, so this is probably a key per gramme for books on the BBC. I mean, it's every Monday at 9am in the morning, after they've done the whole breakfast news kind of show, hence, it's called start the week. And it's used to be presented by Andrew Marr, and now he rotates with other presenters. He's a journalist himself, and he picks every week. A number of guests who talk about a subject matter or they talk about different subjects matters. And often, most of that, not always, but often they've written a book, which ties in to the subject under discussion. A lot of the time he has academics and journalists, so we're looking at more nonfiction. However, occasionally, he also has fiction writers. Probably the you know, the biggest names that you recently had down Hutch link and Margaret Atwood
Yifan
giving us a weekly programme. So you know, their list is quite long. So even for 2020 we may have dozens of books can you pick out a few that that are quite representative of the kind of issues the programme is interested in? And yeah, I would just add that Andrew Marr made and honourable appearance on cultural potato in our episode talking about a Maoism that was a paid for programme unpacked Maoist Maoism, a global history in that episode, when Andrew Marr was a student, he was a committed communist fanatic. And he wrote during the Cultural Revolution to the Chinese Embassy in London requesting a free case of Mao's little red books to share with his fellow students. Anyway, so yeah, give us some notable books.
Richard
Yeah, yeah, he, for instance, he had a book where they talked about sort of farming and what can we say country? Well, country nature? Yeah, really. And one of the books on there was a book called entangled life by Merlin Sheldrake, and this is about funghi. This band was just talking about the mushrooms, mushrooms, different mushrooms, and what they can teach us. Something else we've had, so maybe more in conjunction with black lives matter. He had the biography of a Haitian revolutionary of the 19th century. Black Spartacus, the life of Toussaint l'ouverture by Sudhir Hazara Singh, and in conversation with olivette hotelli, who's written a book called Africans, Europeans, an untold history.
Yifan
Interesting I see on the on the list, there's a title called China's good war by Rhino jmeter. What which war is this about?
Richard
Rana Mitter previously wrote about the second world war again in the Second World War.
Yifan
Oh, I think I know. Yes, yes. This is about how the West often forgets about China
Richard
Ok yeah that's it. China in the global order? That was
Yifan
Yeah. So it seems that this and I see that there's a new translation of the Aeneid. It's in a way quite a European or British list that you know, it is a title called English pastoral that that's the farming book about mushroom. about these, you know, like gardening, artful farming. There's a book is it is there a book by Hitler? And even you know, classic study is like a very British thing as well. Yeah. So start the week strikes me as compared to the other two are definitely more UK. Not I wouldn't say UK centric. But definitely the taste is
Richard
definitely more so than Barack Obama. Yeah, most definitely. You could say yeah, this is what sort of thinking people or you know, educated people in in Britain might be likely to read is a is going to be on here. Yeah,
Yifan
let's go to the last list. This is a YouTuber you mentioned called better than food to the channel is
Richard
the channel is better than food. And by as he says his host, Clifford, US hosts Clifford Lee Sargent. So this I came to having read, I'd been actually somebody had told me sort of a while back George Bataille story of the eye, which I don't know if you've read it.
Yifan
No, I have not read any of his books
Richard
It's very short. When it came out. It was probably a shocking story. shocking thing to write. I found it very intriguing. And I wanted to find out more. And somehow ended up on YouTube and came across this person talking about how he wanted to adapt it into the film, which I thought was completely crazy was bonkers. I don't think you're anywhere with that. But essentially, I found then found his channel. He at least talked about story of the eye and gave me his insights, which I thought were interesting. His premise is that, you know, in our lifetime, how many books is one going to read especially if you just stick to fiction and so He has this measure. Is the book better than food? Oh, I see. Right see one needs food to survive. Yeah. So, so the measure is is the book better than food? So at the end, he might say better than food? Or he might just say better than food? I don't think so. Some of the titles or merps may be more obscured so some of the titles or maybe famous famous either forgotten books or bit more forgotten or not necessarily known in the English speaking world because that's another thing he has for somebody, let's say is an English speaker is all these got a lot of a lot of books on that that are in that he's reading in translation in English. And that's unusual, because you know, the English speaking book world can be quite narrow minded. Always, always think about, you know, when they announced the Nobel Prize for Literature, usually nobody nobody in this country's heard of who who the winner is. Yes, and so I think a lot of these books are kind of you could say 20th century classics maybe some of them you could say a cult classics sort of book that not not necessarily like there's sort of liked by you know people in in the know as it were.
Yifan
Can you give us some examples of these cult classics?
Richard
But you even the George Bataille story I'd say is a good you know, is what is the story about? I think that's a that's another podcast entirely. Let's not go there. In a way you could say the story of the I two best thing to sum it up. I was thinking about it just now. You could say it's like a book form of a Salvador Dali painting. And even you know, you think of like, what's that film? He made? The slicing slicing eyeballs?
un chien andalou
Yeah, un chien andalou. Y eah, it ties into that whole kind of milleu. And. Bataille was first part of those surrealists
Yifan
strange and disgusting
Richard
Yeah, strange and disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the things that probably the obvious ones would be things like jack Kerouac on the road. What's it? Blood meridian is Yeah, there's a few Mishima Confessions of a mask. Fight Club. Chuck Palahniuk, they'll probably be like, at least a you know, a recent cult book,
Yifan
which one was that sorry?
Richard
Fight Club Palahniuk, which was turned into that film in what in the late 90s. So a lot of these books as well, they link so he might see a lot more lashonda Moldova, which might? Again, you'd say that cult in the sense that a lot. That's a book that inspired a lot of people on the list, like, say, George Bataille. Yeah, like the most of the surrealists, but might not necessarily be known if you hadn't read these authors or knew much about the surrealist writers. And so he kind of goes up, he goes up the kind of what's it called? The sort of family tree of literature in a way.
Yifan
And
yeah, I'm just thinking about from, like, you know, when we have his collection in the bookshop, like, Who are they for? And could you say that his list is a pretentious list?
Yeah, maybe you could say it's a bit pretentious. I think the pretention here is really to just, yeah, to try and read things that actually matter, or they're gonna leave an impression on you. Yeah. And again, they're also the colour aspect is important. Because also, you know, if you want to be part of, you know, of a club as it were of a colorist, and you know, know, what, certain people what books certain people have read, you know, this is a way of, yeah, getting in there. Yeah, I don't know how to sort of explain but meet perhaps the sort of people who are, there are tea because, you know, like, artists who is I like to reference, like, Great authors, or even more obscure authors like this, you know, there's a certain kind of cachet about like, referencing very, very obscure and niche artists of all sorts, whether they're writers or others.
Yeah, and I would say, you know, this list is isn't arty list potential slash artists in a good way. In that these are authors who are trying who in you know, in their time, they were trying to do new things, and
you're trying to experimental
Yeah, they're not in one way or another. Right, a popular novel. I think none of these were We're written thinking, that's write a book to make money.
Richard
Exactly. I mean, some of these writers remain pretty obscure.
Yifan
So that concludes our four lists as examples of, of how we how we pick our books. And the very last item before the end of the programme is, you know, like Word of, is a good word of the month or just to introduce a fun English word to our listeners. Well,
I just used five minutes ago, is the word bonkers, right? essentially means crazy. And it's spelt
B o n k e r s.
Richard
There we are. If something's bonkers. It's crazy. It boggles the mind.
Yifan
And is that the same as bananas? No.
Richard
That's true. Yeah. Bananas. It's completely bananas.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yifan
Okay. Two words. bountiful. And bananas. It's bananas. exactly the same as, as the bananas that you eat. I don't know. Why do people think bananas are crazy?
Richard
They usually say going bananas, don't you?
Yifan
Yeah. Why is that? I wonder? Maybe we should find out. Bananas are bonkers. Okay. All righty. That's another interesting word. All righty. All righty. This is the second programme talking about book lists in Hoxton books. Our bookshop is still not open yet. thanks for bearing with us.
Thank you.
Okay, Cheers.
Bye.
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