ChatGPT chief Nick Turley doesn't want you too attached to AI

ChatGPT chief Nick Turley doesn't want you too attached to AI

Author: The Verge August 14, 2025 Duration: 55:14
This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host and deputy editor at The Verge. Today, I’m talking to a very special guest: Nick Turley, OpenAI’s head of ChatGPT.  While Sam Altman is definitely the public face of OpenAI, Nick has been leading ChatGPT’s development since the very beginning, and it’s now the fastest-growing software product of all time with more than 700 million weekly users. So, Nick and I talk about the backlash against OpenAI’s removal of its GPT-4o model, the future of ChatGPT itself, solving hallucinations, and why he thinks it eventually won’t look like a chatbot at all.  Read the full transcript on The Verge. Links:  ChatGPT won’t remove old models without warning after GPT-5 backlash | Verge ChatGPT is bringing back 4o as an option because people missed it | Verge GPT-5 is being released to all ChatGPT users | Verge The 6 biggest changes coming to ChatGPT | Verge ChatGPT has 20 million paying subscribers | Verge Elon Musk says he’s suing Apple for rigging App Store rankings | Verge OpenAI’s ChatGPT to hit 700 million weekly users | CNBC Chatbots can go into a delusional spiral. Here’s how it happens | NYT ChatGPT gave instructions for murder, self-mutilation, and devil worship | The Atlantic ‘I feel like I’m going crazy’: ChatGPT fuels delusional spirals | WSJ Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the intersection of power, innovation, and consequence, you'll find Decoder with Nilay Patel. Hosted by The Verge's editor-in-chief, this isn't a typical business or technology podcast that simply recites the news. Instead, Nilay engages with founders, CEOs, legislators, and artists in substantive conversations that dissect the mechanics behind major decisions. The dialogue focuses on the real-world implications of big ideas, probing how today's choices in boardrooms and legislatures ripple out into society tomorrow. You'll hear guests articulate their toughest challenges, the trade-offs they've made, and the often-unseen forces shaping industries from social media and artificial intelligence to transportation and entertainment. Each episode is built on a foundation of genuine curiosity, aiming to unpack not just what is happening, but why it matters for the way we all live and work. Listening to this podcast feels like gaining access to a nuanced, behind-the-scenes briefing where strategy and philosophy collide. It's for anyone who suspects that the most important stories aren't the announcements themselves, but the human decisions, the unforeseen problems, and the ethical calculations that happen long before the headlines are written. Through these detailed conversations, Decoder provides a crucial lens on the architects of our modern world and the complex systems they are building, for better or worse.
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Decoder with Nilay Patel
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