Loss of DEI Hurts Everyone: Farah Stockman, Ali Thomas, Ken Covinsky

Loss of DEI Hurts Everyone: Farah Stockman, Ali Thomas, Ken Covinsky

Author: Alex Smith, Eric Widera April 17, 2025 Duration: 47:18

I read Farah Stockman's article in the NYT on why attacks on DEI will cost us all, and thought, "Yes, and 'everyone' includes harm to our healthcare workforce, our patients, and their families."

So we're delighted that Farah Stockman, pulitzer prize winning journalist, author of American Made: What Happens to People When Work Disappears, and editorial board member at the New York TImes joins us to set the bigger picture for this discussion.  Farah provides clear examples from the Biden administration, in which having the most diverse cabinet in history was critical to building bridges, empathy, and inspiring others to feel included.

We are also pleased to welcome Ali Thomas, a hospitalist, member of the Baha'i Faith, leader of anti-racism efforts in the Pacific Northwest, and founder of the BIPOC Health Careers Ecosystem.  Ali talks about the history of affirmative action, which started as a program for Whites, the importance of diversity in the healthcare workforce, the history of allyship and cross cultural collaboration, and his own efforts to provide opportunity and support for historically oppressed groups in his own community to obtain healthcare careers.

And Ken Covinsky, avid baseball fanatic, joins us and notes that the day we record (April 15) is Jackie Robinson day.  Many may be familiar with the story of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in major league baseball in 1947, but may not be aware of the tremendous adversity Jackie Robinson faced, and persistence he displayed, off the field.

We address many things, including:

  • The movement in Corporate America and institutes of higher education to implement DEI programming in the wake of George Floyd

  • The general agreement in America of the value of diversity, and disagreement, unpopularity, and backlash about DEI as it was implemented

  • How the pursuit of diversity and excellence are not in tension, they are aligned and necessary for each other

  • What we can do to build bridges across differences

There was so much we hoped to talk about and didn't get to, but I will link to now, including: Ali's mom's personal history with and study of school desegregation in South Carolina, Farah's mom's pioneering work as a speech language pathologist, and Ken's perspectives on the importance of studying ageism and racism in research.

What a Wonderful World could be sung in irony at this moment.  I hope we all take it literally, with the hope this podcast ends with. The podcast follows the arc towards hope of this video on Race Amity from the National Center for Race Amity, courtesy of Ali Thomas (his dad is featured).

-Alex Smith






Hosted by UCSF physicians Alex Smith and Eric Widera, GeriPal-A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast creates a vital space for conversation at the intersection of aging and serious illness care. This isn't a dry lecture series; it's a dynamic dialogue where Eric and Alex bring on leading experts to unpack the complexities of geriatric and palliative medicine. They delve into the latest research that should change practice, tackle the ethical dilemmas that provoke debate, and explore the nuanced clinical challenges that professionals face daily. The tone is engaging and often surprisingly lighthearted, with moments of humor and even the occasional song, making profound topics more accessible. Whether you're a clinician, nurse, social worker, or any professional dedicated to this field, this podcast offers a blend of evidence-based insights and practical wisdom you can use. It’s a resource that acknowledges the weight of the work while fostering connection and continued learning. For those seeking formal education credits, AMA PRA Category 1 CME and MOC credit are also available through the show. Tune in to join a community committed to improving care for older adults and those with serious illness.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast
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