Pragmatic Trial of ACP: Jennifer Wolff, Sydney Dy, Danny Scerpella, and Jasmine Santoyo-Olsson

Pragmatic Trial of ACP: Jennifer Wolff, Sydney Dy, Danny Scerpella, and Jasmine Santoyo-Olsson

Author: Alex Smith, Eric Widera March 27, 2025 Duration: 47:04

A pragmatic trial evaluates the effectiveness of a treatment or intervention in "real-world" clinical practice.  Outcomes are typically assessed from available records.  Eligibility in pragmatic trials are often broad, and don't have the exclusions of efficacy studies, which examine treatment effects under highly controlled conditions in highly select populations.

Today we are delighted to welcome Jennifer Wolff, Sydney Dy, and Danny Scerpella, who conducted a pragmatic trial of advance care planning (ACP) in primary care practices; and Jasmine Santoyo-Olsson, who wrote an accompanying commentary in JAMA Internal Medicine.

We spend the last portion of the podcast discussing the surprising finding of the study.  In the primary care practices that received the advance care planning intervention, rates of advance care planning were higher (about double). Shockingly, rates of potentially burdensome intervention (intubation, CPR, etc) were also higher in the advance care planning intervention group.  What?!?  Not a typo.

We spend some time unpacking and contextualizing the potential reasons for this surprising finding, including:

  • Disconnect between relatively low rates of new advance directives (12% in intervention arm vs 7% control) and higher rates of potentially burdensome treatment among decedents (29% in intervention arm vs 21% control).  Only 5% of intervention patients received the facilitator led component of the intervention (there were other components, facilitator-led was the most engaged component). Was there really a causal connection between the intervention, new advance directives, and higher rates of potentially burdensome interventions?

  • Potential that care received, though potentially burdensome, was in fact aligned with goals, and might represent goal concordant care.

  • Potential that documenting advance directives without a robust conversation about prognosis might have led to these findings.  My goals will differ if I think I probably have 2 years to live vs 10 years.

  • Comparison to a trial Yael Shenker discussed in our podcast on AAHPM/HPNA plenary abstracts (also used the Respecting Choices intervention, outcome differed).

  • Implications for the larger discussion over the value of advance care planning, and additional research into advance care planning.  As I say on the podcast, I'm sure Sean Morrison would be delighted to point to these findings as evidence that advance care planning doesn't work, and in fact may be harmful.

And I got to sing in Spanish for the second time. I hope my pronunciation is better than my Urdu, or French!

-Alex Smith

 


Hosted by UCSF physicians Alex Smith and Eric Widera, GeriPal-A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast creates a vital space for conversation at the intersection of aging and serious illness care. This isn't a dry lecture series; it's a dynamic dialogue where Eric and Alex bring on leading experts to unpack the complexities of geriatric and palliative medicine. They delve into the latest research that should change practice, tackle the ethical dilemmas that provoke debate, and explore the nuanced clinical challenges that professionals face daily. The tone is engaging and often surprisingly lighthearted, with moments of humor and even the occasional song, making profound topics more accessible. Whether you're a clinician, nurse, social worker, or any professional dedicated to this field, this podcast offers a blend of evidence-based insights and practical wisdom you can use. It’s a resource that acknowledges the weight of the work while fostering connection and continued learning. For those seeking formal education credits, AMA PRA Category 1 CME and MOC credit are also available through the show. Tune in to join a community committed to improving care for older adults and those with serious illness.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast
Podcast Episodes
400th Episode Celebration: Ask Us Anything, Hot Ones-style [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:57
Lynn Flint and Anne Kelly join as hosts in a reprise of last year's ask us anything format. Thank you for sending in your terrific questions! Lynn and Anne condensed them to about 20, and we ran through them rather rapid…
Unilateral DNR? Gina Piscitello, Erin DeMartino, Will Parker [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:24
Do you think your hospital should allow unilateral DNR orders? Under what circumstances? Through what process? Do you think that when you obtain the assent of a family to not code their loved one, that assent DNR should…