Episode 2536: Is Spying an Un-American activity?
Is spying an un-American activity? Not according to Jeffrey Rogg, whose new book, The Spy and the State, tells the story of American intelligence from the Revolutionary War to the present day. Rogg explores America's ambivalent relationship with espionage, arguing that spying is often viewed as "un-American" and yet necessary. he discusses key figures in American intelligence history such as OSS founder “Wild” Bill Donovan as well as shameful episodes like the botched Bay of Pigs invasion. Rogg highlights how these agencies reflect American society's strengths and weaknesses, and warns against over-politicizing intelligence. Throughout history, he emphasizes, Americans have gotten the intelligence community they've "bargained for." Which is certainly one way of thinking about SignalGate and the current state of American intelligence.
5 take-aways
* Americans have historically viewed spying as a "necessary evil" that contradicts core American values of transparency and forthrightness, creating an inherent tension in the intelligence community.
* Intelligence agencies often reflect the broader society - during crises, they tend to surveil minority groups, showing how America's fears manifest in intelligence operations.
* Major intelligence failures (like the Bay of Pigs) and domestic surveillance represent dark chapters that have eroded public trust in intelligence institutions.
* Political polarization of intelligence agencies is dangerous - when appointed leaders and career officials are at odds, it creates a toxic environment for effective intelligence work.
* The intelligence community struggles to keep pace with technological advances, creating challenges for modern operations (as seen in the Signal Crisis and COVID work-from-home limitations).
*
Jeffrey P. Rogg is Senior Research Fellow at the Global and National Security Institute at the University of South Florida. He previously held academic positions at the Joint Special Operations University at US Special Operations Command, the Department of Intelligence and Security Studies at The Citadel, and the National Security Affairs Department at the US Naval War College. He has a BA from Swarthmore College, a JD from Villanova University, an MA in Security Studies from the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service, and a PhD in history from The Ohio State University. He serves on the boards of the International Journal of Intelligence and CounterIntelligence and the Society for Intelligence History. He lives in Tampa, Florida.
Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.
Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe
Episode 2072: Keith Teare on Scarlett Johansson's voice and the creative promise/peril of AI
Episode 2071: Jehuda Reinharz on Chaim Weizmann, the first President of Israel who aspired to be a British aristocrat
Episode 2070: John R. MacArthur warns that reading digital screens might be shrinking our brains
Episode 2069: KEEN ON America featuring Bobi Conn
Episode 2068: Jacob Kushner on the National Socialist Underground's plot to kill German immigrants
Episode 2067: Jordan Elgrably on richly complex stories about the Middle East and North Africa mostly ignored by Western media
Episode 2066: Steven Johnson on the invention of dynamite, anarchist violence and the rise of the 20th century surveillance state
Episode 2065: Craig Whitlock explains how an overweight Malaysian contractor known as Fat Leonard bribed, bilked and seduced the U.S. Navy
Episode 2064: Chris Gavaler explains how How Stars Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Marvel determine how we view reality
Episode 2063: Rabbi Shai Held on why Judaism is really all about Love
Episode 2062: KEEN ON AMERICA featuring Ali Velshi
Episode 2061: Rafil Kroll-Zaidi on Branson, Missouri, the most American town you've never heard of
Episode 2060: Ferdia Lennon on the tragicomedy of the Peloponnesian War