"We all love Thomas Paine. We just wish we liked him." — Jonathan Turley
Jonathan Turley's new book asks a deceptively simple question: why did the American Revolution become the longest-running successful democracy while the French Revolution devoured itself? The answer, he argues, lies in Madison's "auxiliary precautions" — constitutional safeguards designed not to eliminate rage but to channel it. Turley draws a direct line from Robespierre to today's calls to pack the Supreme Court and abolish the Senate, warning that removing those precautions invites the same mobocracy that sent the Jacobins to the guillotine. But the real provocation comes in the book's second half: with AI and robotics threatening mass unemployment, America may soon face a "kept population" — citizens subsidized by the state who lose their vital relationship to productivity and self-governance. We discuss Thomas Paine (brilliant about humanity, clueless about humans), why rage itself isn't the enemy, and whether the republic built to handle the 18th century can survive the 21st.
About the Guest
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University Law School. A legal analyst for CBS, NBC, BBC, and Fox News over three decades, he is the author of The Indispensable Right (a bestseller) and the new Rage and the Republic: The Unfinished Story of the American Revolution.
Chapters:
00:01:14 The uniqueness of the American Revolution
Two revolutions, two outcomes; Thomas Paine and James Madison as the twin geniuses
00:03:53 Paine vs. Madison on democracy
Paine wanted direct democracy; it nearly got him guillotined in France
00:05:54 Robespierre's transformation
The ACLU lawyer who came to believe "terror is virtue"
00:09:01 Thomas Paine: the penman of the revolution
From complete failure to revolutionary genius in two years
00:11:46 Slavery and the revolution's contradictions
Why people preferred Jefferson to Paine
00:15:43 Franklin's greatest achievement
Seeing something in "that heap of human wreckage"
00:18:07 What was unique about American rage
Not the rage itself, but the system designed to handle it
00:25:08 The "New Jacobins"
Calls to pack the Supreme Court and abolish the Senate
00:26:40 Rage on both sides
"Your rage is righteous, their rage is dangerous"
00:30:47 AI and the "kept population"
Mass unemployment and the citizen's relationship to the state
00:39:26 "Gynan" jobs
Homocentric industries like psychiatry and education that AI can't replace
00:45:00 Why the American Republic is still the best model
Decentralization over EU-style centralization
References
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About Keen On America
Nobody asks more impertinent questions than the Anglo-American writer, filmmaker and Silicon Valley entrepreneur Andrew Keen. In Keen On America , Andrew brings his sharp Transatlantic wit to the forces reshaping the United States — hosting daily interviews with leading thinkers and writers about American history, politics, technology, culture, and business. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
