Defining Modernity in South-East Asia

Defining Modernity in South-East Asia

Author: ECFR July 31, 2026 Duration: 39:33

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by LuHan Gabel, associate director of the Ideas Workshop at the Open Society Foundations; Ooi Kee Beng, political historian and executive director of the Penang Institute; and Chelsea Nguyen, research assistant in the Department of International History at the London School of Economics.


LuHan highlights how young people in China are increasingly questioning the meaning of development and modernity beyond material progress. Kee Beng reflects on Malaysia’s complex relationship with China, arguing that their growing engagement is reconnecting South-East Asia to older historical patterns of regional interaction. Chelsea explains how, in Vietnam, attitudes towards China have shifted dramatically since the covid-19 pandemic, with young people becoming more curious about Chinese technology and society.


Together, Mark, LuHan, Kee Beng and Chelsea explore whether a post-Western, rather than anti-Western, generation is taking shape across the region. How did the covid-19 pandemic reshape perceptions of China in South-East Asia? Which aspects of Chinese modernity resonate most with younger generations? Is China becoming a new reference point for development and aspiration? And what do these shifts mean for Europe’s role in an increasingly multipolar world?


This podcast episode was recorded on July 10th 2026.


Bookshelf 

A Maritime Vietnam: From Earliest Times to the Nineteenth Century, by Tana Li

State Building in Cold War Asia: Comrades and Competitors on the Sino-Vietnamese Border, by Qingfei Yin

Border Country, by Raymond Williams

The Scythian Empire: Central Eurasia and the Birth of the Classical Age from Persia to China, by Christopher I. Beckwith

Adrift in the South, by Xiao Hai


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.


Each week, Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes cuts through the noise of global headlines to explore the deeper forces at play. Curated by Mark Leonard, who directs the European Council on Foreign Relations, this ECFR podcast brings together leading thinkers, policymakers, and analysts from across Europe and the wider world. Their conversations move beyond the day's news to debate the underlying policies, strategic ideas, and geopolitical shifts that are actively shaping our future. The focus is consistently on understanding Europe's place in a complex international landscape, examining how it responds to crises and where it can exercise influence. Recognized for its quality with PolicyLab's 2019 award for best podcast on EU politics, this series delivers concise, substantive dialogue that fits into a busy schedule. As part of the EuroPod network, it offers a vital perspective for anyone looking to grasp not just what is happening, but why it matters. Tune in for a regular dose of informed discussion that connects the dots between events, decisions, and their long-term consequences.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes
Podcast Episodes
Ukraine’s winter of pressure [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 27:21
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Jana Kobzova, co-director of ECFR’s European Security programme, to discuss the mounting pressures facing Ukraine as it enters another wartime winter. Despite Ukraine’s success in dis…
The geopolitics of global hunger [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 28:28
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Cary Fowler, founder and president of the Food Security Leadership Council and former US global food security envoy, and Jim O’Brien, ECFR distinguished visiting fellow and former US…
Emergency Room: The AfD’s victory in Saxony-Anhalt [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:10
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Jana Puglierin, senior policy fellow and head of ECFR’s Berlin office, in a World in 30 Minutes Emergency Room episode to discuss the latest in German politics.The AfD’s win in the sm…
Maximum pressure on Iran, round two [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 32:37
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Ellie Geranmayeh, deputy director of ECFR's Middle East and North Africa programme, to unpack a volatile new chapter in the confrontation between the United States and Iran. After mon…
Can a Ceasefire Survive Israel’s Election? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 28:15
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Hugh Lovatt, senior policy fellow at ECFR, to unpack a turbulent summer in Israel and the Palestinian territories. While Palestinian factions in Gaza have agreed in principle to decom…
Germany’s second China shock [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:58
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Janka Oertel, director of ECFR’s DARE* initiative, and Andrew Small, head of ECFR’s Asia programme, to examine the growing impact of the “China shock 2.0” on Germany and Europe. A new…
Political crisis in Germany [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:00
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Jörg Lau, international correspondent at Die Zeit and Jana Puglierin, head of ECFR’s Berlin office, to explore the political turmoil in Germany ahead of an electoral autumn. Chancello…
Latin America’s new imaginaries [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:43
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Adriana Abdenur, a Brazilian policy expert and co-president of the Global Fund for a New Economy, and Jorge Castañeda, former foreign minister of Mexico and professor at Sciences Po,…
The China-native generation [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:48
This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Loubna El Amine, lecturer in political theory at King’s College London and affiliate of the Lau China Institute, and Cobus van Staden, head of research at the China-Global South Proje…
European defence after the NATO summit [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:06
This week, Mark Leonard welcomes Camille Grand, secretary general of ASD Europe and special adviser to ECFR’s European Security programme, and Marta Prochwicz Jazowska, deputy head of ECFR’s Warsaw office and policy fell…