The age of unorder

The age of unorder

Author: ECFR May 1, 2026 Duration: 25:01
Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes
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This week, Mark Leonard welcomes Ayşe Zarakol, professor of international relations at Cambridge University, to explore whether today’s global crises signal disorder or a deeper shift toward “unorder,” where shared rules and assumptions are no longer relevant. 


Drawing on historical parallels—from the interwar period to the upheavals of the 17th century—Zarakol suggests that this may be the start of a longer era of fragmentation. Together, they examine what this means for Europe, from letting go of old ways of thinking to redefining its role in a more unpredictable world. 


Rather than restoring a fading order, the focus shifts to a more urgent scenario: what is worth preserving and how can Europe adapt to chaos to survive? 


This podcast episode was recorded on 26th of February. 

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Each week, Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes cuts through the noise of global headlines to explore the deeper forces at play. Curated by Mark Leonard, who directs the European Council on Foreign Relations, this ECFR podcast brings together leading thinkers, policymakers, and analysts from across Europe and the wider world. Their conversations move beyond the day's news to debate the underlying policies, strategic ideas, and geopolitical shifts that are actively shaping our future. The focus is consistently on understanding Europe's place in a complex international landscape, examining how it responds to crises and where it can exercise influence. Recognized for its quality with PolicyLab's 2019 award for best podcast on EU politics, this series delivers concise, substantive dialogue that fits into a busy schedule. As part of the EuroPod network, it offers a vital perspective for anyone looking to grasp not just what is happening, but why it matters. Tune in for a regular dose of informed discussion that connects the dots between events, decisions, and their long-term consequences.
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