GSE Over ESG with Catherine Livingstone AC, Chair, Pacific National & Director, Saluda Medical & The Australian Ballet

"By starting with governance - defining it as the strategic side of governance, not the control side - you lift everything up."

- Catherine Livingstone AC

Catherine Livingstone AC, Chancellor of UTS, Chair of Pacific National and former Chair of the Commonwealth Bank, Telstra and CSIRO, explains why the way organisations frame ESG shapes the quality of every conversation that follows.

Catherine's argument isn't just about semantics. When governance sits at the end of the acronym, it signals that G is smaller in scope - and in practice, that means E and S get managed through a compliance lens rather than a strategic one.

In this episode, she walks through the governance definition she uses (direction, control and people), why compliance requirements for E and S are inherently narrow and backward-looking, and what boards need to do differently - at the agenda level, the resource level and the performance metrics level - to make environmental and social priorities genuinely stick.

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