2: A New Gospel for Gay Sinners | When We All Get to Heaven

2: A New Gospel for Gay Sinners | When We All Get to Heaven

Author: Slate Podcasts October 15, 2025 Duration: 56:32

Why would an out queer person in the Gay Liberation Days of the 1970s go to church? What church would they go to? And why would they stay? In the 1960s, and ‘70s, the separation between God and gays was not as vast as it seemed. Rev. Troy Perry started the first Metropolitan Community Church in his Los Angeles living room. Tired of flying to LA every week, a Navy veteran started the second one in a San Francisco gay bar. And the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco was there for a young lesbian as she navigated spirituality, coming out, and her increasingly conservative family. When her friend got sick, she tried to be there for him. Church helped.      

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-2.

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Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels. 

Thanks to


Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.


Some links to good groups:

The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation’s current website. 

Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part. 

San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV. 

POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).

Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.   

LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history.


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There’s a particular kind of conversation that happens among friends after the main event winds down, where the real talk begins. That’s the spirit of Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast. Each month, this gathering from Slate Podcasts creates a space that feels less like a formal interview and more like a lively, insightful salon. The discussions here are rooted in the vibrant and ever-evolving realities of queer life, tackling everything from politics and pop culture to health, fitness, and sexuality with both intelligence and a genuine sense of camaraderie. You’ll hear hosts and guests unpack the issues animating LGBTQ communities, often from angles you might not have considered, blending sharp analysis with personal stories. The result is a podcast that deepens your understanding while never losing its warmth or wit. It’s a colorful, thoughtful dialogue that invites you to listen in and feel like part of the conversation, offering both clarity on complex topics and the simple pleasure of connecting with smart perspectives on what it means to live openly and authentically.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast
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