6: Attacked | When We All Get to Heaven

6: Attacked | When We All Get to Heaven

Author: Slate Podcasts November 12, 2025 Duration: 1:01:00

San Francisco’s gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn’t just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing  anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church and the minister. And when they finally solved the puzzle of who did it, the answer shocked the church. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-6.

The voices from the service after the first attack include

  • Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “If you come for one of us, you come for all of us.” 

  • Kevin Calegari, Dignity San Francisco – “Somebody by the name of Jesus…”

  • Harry Britt, San Francisco City Supervisor – “It hurts to be reminded of the power of evil.”

  • Gayle Orr-Smith, representative of the Mayor’s Office – “I am moved when I hear you say you are an angry people.” 

  • Rev. Duane Wilkerson, United Methodist Church – “But in the event that doubt has crept into your mind…” 

  • Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “And to the enemies who are attacking us…”

“The Call” is by George Herber with music by Vaughan Williams. The soloist is Bob Crocker.

“Nearer My God to Thee” is by Sarah Flowers Abrams.

Some links to good groups

Community United Against Violence – still working for safe communities for queer people. 

National Alliance on Mental Illness LGBTQI Information Page

The Shanti Project - is a pioneering nonprofit that builds human connections to reduce isolation, enhance health and well-being, and improve quality of life. It innovated enduring models of attentive companionship to people facing the end of life through their work during the height of the AIDS crisis. 

The Trevor Project – the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention non-profit organization for LGBTQ+ young people. 

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM

Special thanks to Kelsy Pacha, Dr. Janis Whitlock, and Dr. Mary Hunt for consulting with us about this episode. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. 


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.


There’s a particular kind of conversation that happens among friends after the main event winds down, where the real talk begins. That’s the spirit of Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast. Each month, this gathering from Slate Podcasts creates a space that feels less like a formal interview and more like a lively, insightful salon. The discussions here are rooted in the vibrant and ever-evolving realities of queer life, tackling everything from politics and pop culture to health, fitness, and sexuality with both intelligence and a genuine sense of camaraderie. You’ll hear hosts and guests unpack the issues animating LGBTQ communities, often from angles you might not have considered, blending sharp analysis with personal stories. The result is a podcast that deepens your understanding while never losing its warmth or wit. It’s a colorful, thoughtful dialogue that invites you to listen in and feel like part of the conversation, offering both clarity on complex topics and the simple pleasure of connecting with smart perspectives on what it means to live openly and authentically.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast
Podcast Episodes
America’s Gay Restaurants with Erik Piepenburg [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:25
This week, Christina Cauterucci is joined by Erik Piepenburg, author of Dining Out, a new book that explores the history of gay restaurants in the United States. Piepenburg traces how restaurants have long served as esse…
Queer Travel Writing with Alden Jones [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:58
Outward’s Bryan Lowder and Christina Cauterucci talk to Alden Jones, editor of the new anthology, Edge of the World. With essays from Alexander Chee, Daisy Hernández, Edmund White, and more, the collection makes clear th…
Iowa’s Civil Rights Crisis with Hope Giselle and Dr. David Johns [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:19
This week, Bryan Lowder is joined by Hope Giselle and Dr. David Johns to discuss Iowa’s recent decision to strip trans people of key legal protections, making it legal to discriminate based on gender identity. They explo…
How The Gay Rights Movement Became Trans- Exclusionary [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 33:37
In this episode, Christina Cauterucci speaks with Zein Murib, Fordham professor and author of Terms of Exclusion: Rightful Citizenship Claims and the Construction of LGBT Political Identity, about the historical roots of…
The New Lavender Scare with Christina Cauterucci [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:22
In this episode, Christina Cauterucci and Jules Gill-Peterson discuss Christina’s latest Slate article, The New Lavender Scare, which highlights the experiences of queer and trans federal employees grappling with the thr…
Renaissance Trans Theologies and History with Colby Gordon [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:36
In this episode of Outward, Jules Gill-Peterson sits down with Colby Gordon to talk about his new book, Glorious Bodies: Trans Theology and Renaissance Literature. Gordon digs into early modern religious texts that, inst…
Should We Get Guns? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:59
A gun won’t make you safer, but it will pull you into America’s deep-seated obsession with armed individualism. This week, Bryan, Christina, and Jules dig into The Washington Post’s “The Trans Americans Turning to Guns f…
Why Love Isn’t Apolitical: Liberation and Rethinking Relationships [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 36:32
This week, Bryan Lowder sits down with activist and author Dean Spade to discuss his latest book, Love in a F*cked Up World. Together, they unpack how capitalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy shape our desires, the pi…
Slapping Leather: The Untamed History of the Gay Rodeo [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 36:29
This week on Outward, host Christina Cauterucci talks to historian Rebecca Scofield about the new book, Slapping Leather: Queer Cowfolx at the Gay Rodeo. From rhinestone-studded chaps to the hard-won battles for inclusio…