Ep. 50: Skinny Mike (w/ Mike Rayo)

It's big episode 50 over here at Punk Rock Safety, and the boys have made it exactly 49 episodes further than anyone would have thought. By now, you've probably caught on to the whole NOFX theme. It's not a song title for the episode, but it's a reference to Fat Mike, so that counts. Except this time, we've got Skinny Mike. Mike Rayo from THE Ohio State University's Cognitive Systems Engineering Lab joins the boys. By the way, that's Doctor Ron Gantt's Alma Mater in case you were keeping track. This fiftieth episode leans pretty hard into chaos and systems thinking. Ben is doing some sunset broadcasting from a dog park at a South Carolina truck stop. If you listen close, you can hear Jake brakes highlighting the smart things Mike says. The boys also wander into a discussion about AI’s awkward fit inside socio-technical systems, the gap in designing for joint cognitive activity, and why adaptive capacity remains the neglected pillar in safety investments. There's something for everyone, and Ron gets his joint cognitive activity, so that's a bonus. Professor Mike Rayo drops an integrated frame for “modern safety” (or “balanced safety”) and tackles the stupid “safety label wars” that have come up more than a few times. It's a little like deciding what counts as "punk," though, so don't expect that to be completely solved (except if you're the one telling everyone they aren't punk enough, you're probably the asshole). The coolest part of the episode is probably the whole discussion on adaptive capacity moving from a footnote in most safety discussions to the thing that actually makes it happen. Want to hear how the guys solve it? Check it out, punks. Even though Mike doesn't have any tattoos, mostly has instruments just lying around, and isn't really that into punk, he's real one - and he's a kick ass example of how Henry Rollins defines punk: "Questioning anything and everything.” Get after it.