162. Dr. David Lisak, PhD: The Man Who Shaped My Work — Sharing Science, Wisdom, and Hope

I'm so honored to share this week's episode of The SASS Podcast with someone who is far more than a guest—he's a mentor, a guiding light, and a dear friend: Dr. David Lisak, PhD. I've personally known David since 1992, when I met him at a training conference where we were both teaching on rape and sexual assault investigations. From those early days of my journey into trauma-informed investigations, inspired by David, he set the bar for what rigorous, compassionate, science-based work looks like. I'm grateful every day that our paths crossed. Who is David Lisak? David is a clinical and forensic psychologist whose career has been defined by an extraordinary depth of research into interpersonal violence, sexual assault, and the long-term impact of childhood abuse—especially in men. (House Docs) He earned his PhD from Duke University and later served as Associate Professor of Psychology at University of Massachusetts Boston. (Wikipedia) His research includes seminal work on so-called "undetected rapists" — men who committed sexual assault but were never prosecuted — helping shift how the criminal justice system and institutions think about serial offending and victim vulnerability. (TIME) He is a founding board member of 1in6 — a nonprofit dedicated to supporting male survivors of childhood sexual abuse and trauma. (House Docs) David's work has had real-world reach: trainings across every U.S. state, consultation with the military, and involvement in major judicial and prosecutorial education efforts on sexual assault. (kirtland.af.mil) On a personal level, David is himself a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. He turned that lived wound into a mission: to break silence, deepen understanding, and empower both survivors and the professionals who serve them. (1in6.org) Why I Asked David to Be on the Show Because when I think about trauma-informed interviewing, especially in the sexual assault realm, nobody blends the neuroscience, the forensic rigor, the interviewing technique, and the survivor-centered ethos quite like David. Because I've seen firsthand how he mentors (me and others) with humility, curiosity, and a deep commitment to doing no additional harm. Because our book and masterclass work (on trauma-informed investigations) simply wouldn't be as strong without grounding from his research and example. Because the connection is personal. As someone in this field, you hope for a few mentors who walk the talk. David is one of those. I'm deeply honoured to have him here, and I want our audience to know just how lucky we are to learn alongside him. What We'll Explore in This Episode The neuroscience of trauma in sexual assault: what happens in the brain and how knowing that changes how we interview survivors. The dynamics of perpetration: David's research on serial offenders, undetected rapists, and how institutions often miss the patterns. Interviewing victims without retraumatizing: practical tactics, grounded in empathy, science, and the deep lessons David has gleaned over decades. What it means to bring a trauma-informed lens into the criminal justice system: both the opportunities and the hard realities. David's personal journey: how his own survival informed his work, and how hope and resilience can coexist with the gravity of this subject. Some Notable Highlights & Quotes In one of his foundational works, David describes the paradox-that despite sexual assault being treated as one of the most serious crimes, the vast majority of rapes are never prosecuted—and the myths around victim behavior and perpetrator profile still linger. (static.csbsju.edu) His 2002 study, "Repeat Rape and Multiple Offending Among Undetected Rapists", revealed very sobering statistics: among a sample of men who had self-reported acts meeting the legal definition of rape, the average number of rapes per offender was roughly six. (TIME) David is quoted in a military base article saying: "Sexual violence is a global problem. It affects every institution and community. The only question: Is it confronted with honesty and commitment?" (kirtland.af.mil) From his story on 1in6: "He turned from farming to psychology… He transformed his early traumatic experiences into a career of research and clinical work, focused on trauma." (1in6.org) My Personal Reflection David, I want to say directly: your friendship, your mentorship, your unwavering standard have meant more to me than I can adequately express in these notes. You have modeled for me what it means to combine rigorous science with deep compassion; to enter the "hard space" of sexual assault investigation without turning away; to always center the survivor's lived experience while equipping professionals with clear, actionable insight. Having you on the SASS Podcast feels like coming full circle. I'm proud, humbled, and ready to dive deep with you. Audience Takeaway (for them to remember) Think of this not just as a "talk episode" but as an opportunity: with David here, you'll be challenged to think differently about trauma, interviewing, and systems of response. If you work in criminal justice, victim advocacy, forensic interviewing—or even just care deeply about supporting survivors—tune in with a notebook handy. David brings insights you'll want to capture. And if you're a survivor or know one: you'll hear someone who both understands the science and honors the person behind the trauma. That combination is rare—and precious. Thank you, David, for accepting my invitation, for journeying with me into this space, and for being the kind of mentor I've aspired to be like. And to our listeners: brace yourselves for one of the richest conversations we've had on The SASS Podcast. An important side note: if you're finding value in this show and these amazing episodes, please take a moment to leave a 5-star rating on your podcast platform. AND, follow SexualAssaultSurvivorStories on Instagram, then, please send me a note of support. I can't tell you how much your emails mean to me—they fuel my passion to keep this podcast going. And if you're a victim or survivor and are ready to tell your story in order to help yourself or someone else heal, let me know, and we can start a conversation about the possibility of you being on the show. Here's my email address: dave@sasstories.com Thank you to all of you who have reached out to me already. Just provide me with a phone number where I can reach back out to you…because I like to talk to people who are interested in guesting. And please keep those emails and texts coming…I truly look forward to hearing from you! Here are some critically important links that I hope you'll take the time to explore, and where a contribution is requested, please consider doing so!—Thank you!! https://1in6.org/ https://www.kirtland.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/817825/psychologist-addresses-sexual-violence/ https://static.csbsju.edu/Documents/Counseling%20and%20Health%20Promotions/CERTS/David%20Lisak%20article.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://time.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/repeat_rape.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS00/20130123/100231/HHRG-113-AS00-Bio-LisakD-20130123.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://soulwisesolutions.com https://safeinharmsway.org https://sironahealing.com/ https://www.whattheydontsay.com https://www.survivor-school.com/?ref=DAVEMARKEL www.arcigrey.com https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/invisible-no-more-lady-veterans-stories-of-military/id1754061590 https://startbybelieving.org https://evawintl.org/ As mentioned, and emphasized, it's time to Normalize the Conversation.™ And please remember to Start by Believing…because we all know someone whose life has been impacted by rape or sexual assault. Thank you for tuning in.