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Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation

Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation

Author: Vox Media Podcast Network May 21, 2026 Duration: 1:02:50
The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
SocietySociety & CultureCulture
Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!  You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today? 5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety  16:30 - Grieving for Joy 28:22 - Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office? 43:18 - Loving or Hating Violating the Rules 49:30 - The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully 1:03:40 - The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit 1:08:39 - What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996) The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3 - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022, Unlocking Us Podcast The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong - Johann Hari, 2015, TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior - Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014, Management Science Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, book, Gotham Books I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast) Do Conversations End When People Want Them To? - Mastroianni et al., 2021, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book) Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids - Logan Ury, 2026, Gottman Institute The Virtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)  Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series) The Madison - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series) Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series) Opening Up Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics Ending Social Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book) Sorry for Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics Getting Down to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research Negotiating Last-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters - Park, 2013, Social Science & Medicine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Imagine a conversation where the goal isn't to win, but to wander. That's the space created in The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant. Each week, research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant meet not as definitive experts, but as dedicated practitioners of a more thoughtful dialogue. In a culture that often confuses loudness for clarity, this podcast from the Vox Media Podcast Network offers a different rhythm. You'll hear them challenge their own assumptions and gently interrogate complex ideas from society and culture, demonstrating that true understanding often begins with admitting what you don't know. Their discussions are a practical masterclass in intellectual humility, focusing on the power of better questions rather than the delivery of tidy answers. Listening feels like being invited into a rare, thoughtful exchange where curiosity is the highest currency. The result is a series of conversations that don't simplify the world's messiness but engage with it more honestly, encouraging everyone who tunes in to reconsider how they learn, think, and connect with others. It’s a weekly reminder that growth is found in the nuance, and that some of the most important discoveries start with a simple, "I wonder."
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

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The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
Podcast Episodes
Brené with Mike Erwin on Leadership Is a Relationship, Part 2 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:56
We’re back with Part 2 of my conversation with Mike Erwin, the founder and CEO of the Character and Leadership Center and the co-author of Leadership Is a Relationship. In this episode, we continue to dig into how the mo…
Brené with Mike Erwin on Leadership Is a Relationship, Part 1 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:06
This is the first of two episodes with Mike Erwin, the founder and CEO of the Character and Leadership Center and the co-author of Leadership Is a Relationship, a timely book that details why leaders who prioritize relat…
Brené with Lisa Lahey on Immunity to Change, Part 2 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:06:11
I won’t lie: This conversation was hard as hell. But — I’m so grateful to Lisa Lahey and all the work she and Robert Kegan have done on the “immunity to change” theory. It explains why lasting, meaningful change is damn…
Brené with Lisa Lahey on Immunity to Change, Part 1 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:48
I don’t like to think of myself as someone who’s averse to change. But, man, am I averse to change. Enter the amazing Lisa Lahey. She is a Harvard Graduate School of Education faculty member who has built a body of work…
Brené and Barrett on Building Brave Spaces [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 36:17
Barrett and I invite you into some research thinking and dig into the latest data on how to build brave spaces with our teams — what gets in the way of people showing up, what gets in the way of doing the work, and how j…
Brené with Janice Omadeke on The Mentor Method and Why Values Matter [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:50
Janice Omadeke is the creator of The Mentor Method, an enterprise software that transforms company culture through mentorship. We talk about her entrepreneurship journey, from building fan sites as a hobby to being named…

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