Nao Tokui: "Surfing" Musical Creativity with AI

Nao Tokui: "Surfing" Musical Creativity with AI

Author: Daniel Bashir October 19, 2023 Duration: 1:02:19
The Gradient: Perspectives on AI
TechnologyScience

In episode 95 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Nao Tokui.

Nao Tokui is an artist/DJ and researcher based in Tokyo. While pursuing his Ph.D. at The University of Tokyo, he produced his first music album and singles using AI, including a 12-inch record with Nujabes, a legendary Japanese hip-hop producer. After completing his Ph.D. research, he founded Qosmo, AI Creativity and Music Lab, in 2009. Since then, he has been actively working at the intersection of AI technology and art. Nao and his team's works have been exhibited at renowned venues such as the New York MoMA and the Barbican Centre in London. Their performances have also been showcased at various music festivals, including MUTEK and Sonar. Additionally, he is leading the development of AI-based music instruments at his newly founded company, Neutone. In 2021, Nao received the Okawa Publishing Award for his Japanese book on art, creativity, and AI. The book is scheduled to be released in English as "Surfing human creativity with AI — A user's guide" in November 2023.

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Outline:

* (00:00) Intro

* (02:15) Nao’s background and how he got into AI and music

* (05:10) Nao’s experiences as a DJ, collaboration with Nujabes

* (07:10) HCI and music

* (10:35) Leveraging the difference between AI systems and humans

* (12:40) Total control vs total chaos

* (13:45) Qosmo and the Neutone Project, misusable AI tools

* (17:25) On music and “creating something new”

* (21:00) Declarative and top-down vs. bottom-up creation, individual taste

* (23:50) How generative AI enables humans

* (26:25) On misusing technology and art

* (32:00) Dawn Patrol EP

* (36:00) A two-discriminator GAN for creating music in new genres

* (37:45) The AI DJ Project

* (38:20) The interactive vision of the project

* (42:10) How AI chooses music, breaking from constraints

* (43:15) Interpretability and how an AI system DJs differently

* (45:15) How the project altered Nao’s perspective on DJing, the role of humans

* (51:40) Nao’s book Creating with AI

* (55:15) Human-AI interaction as joint improvisation

* (58:10) Nao’s advice and takeaways for thinking about AI creatively

* (1:01:32) Outro

Links:

* Nao’s homepage and Twitter

* Other links:

* Neutone, AI audio plugin

* Real-time AI-generative DJ performance

* Qosmo

* Dawn Patrol EP

* Nao’s book: Surfing human creativity with AI — A user's guide

* Paper on Creative-GAN for deviating from existing music genres



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Hosted by Daniel Bashir, The Gradient: Perspectives on AI moves beyond surface-level headlines to explore the intricate machinery and human ideas shaping artificial intelligence. Each episode is built on a foundation of deep research, leading to conversations that are both technically substantive and broadly accessible. You'll hear from researchers, engineers, and philosophers who are actively building and critiquing our technological future, discussing not just how AI systems work, but the larger implications of their integration into society. This isn't about speculative hype; it's a grounded examination of real progress, persistent challenges, and ethical considerations from those on the front lines. The discussions peel back layers on topics like model architecture, policy, and the fundamental science behind the algorithms becoming part of our daily lives. For anyone curious about the substance behind the buzz-whether you have a technical background or are simply keen to understand a defining technology of our age-this podcast offers a crucial and thoughtful resource. Tune in for a consistently detailed and nuanced take that treats artificial intelligence with the complexity it deserves.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

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