120. Liam Fedus and Barrett Zoph - AI scaling with mixture of expert models

120. Liam Fedus and Barrett Zoph - AI scaling with mixture of expert models

Author: The TDS team April 20, 2022 Duration: 40:47

AI scaling has really taken off. Ever since GPT-3 came out, it’s become clear that one of the things we’ll need to do to move beyond narrow AI and towards more generally intelligent systems is going to be to massively scale up the size of our models, the amount of processing power they consume and the amount of data they’re trained on, all at the same time.

That’s led to a huge wave of highly scaled models that are incredibly expensive to train, largely because of their enormous compute budgets. But what if there was a more flexible way to scale AI — one that allowed us to decouple model size from compute budgets, so that we can track a more compute-efficient course to scale?

That’s the promise of so-called mixture of experts models, or MoEs. Unlike more traditional transformers, MoEs don’t update all of their parameters on every training pass. Instead, they route inputs intelligently to sub-models called experts, which can each specialize in different tasks. On a given training pass, only those experts have their parameters updated. The result is a sparse model, a more compute-efficient training process, and a new potential path to scale.

Google has been pushing the frontier of research on MoEs, and my two guests today in particular have been involved in pioneering work on that strategy (among many others!). Liam Fedus and Barrett Zoph are research scientists at Google Brain, and they joined me to talk about AI scaling, sparsity and the present and future of MoE models on this episode of the TDS podcast.

***

Intro music:

- Artist: Ron Gelinas

- Track Title: Daybreak Chill Blend (original mix)

- Link to Track: https://youtu.be/d8Y2sKIgFWc

***

Chapters:

  • 2:15 Guests’ backgrounds
  • 8:00 Understanding specialization
  • 13:45 Speculations for the future
  • 21:45 Switch transformer versus dense net
  • 27:30 More interpretable models
  • 33:30 Assumptions and biology
  • 39:15 Wrap-up

While the active production of Towards Data Science has concluded, its archive remains a vital resource. Created by The TDS team, this collection captures a specific moment in the rapid evolution of data science and artificial intelligence. Each conversation pulls you directly into the room with leading researchers and practitioners who were shaping the tools and theories of their time. The discussions are not abstract lectures; they are grounded explorations of real-world problems, ethical dilemmas, and technical challenges that defined the field's trajectory. You'll hear experts dissect the implications of their work, from algorithmic fairness to the practicalities of deploying models at scale. This podcast served as a forum for nuanced debate, where complex ideas were unpacked with clarity and depth. Listening now offers a unique historical perspective, a chance to understand the foundational conversations that continue to influence where technology is headed next. The archive of Towards Data Science stands as a substantive record of insight, preserving the voices and questions from the forefront of a digital revolution.
Author: Language: en-us Episodes: 50

Towards Data Science
Podcast Episodes
119. Jaime Sevilla - Projecting AI progress from compute trends [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:34
There’s an idea in machine learning that most of the progress we see in AI doesn’t come from new algorithms of model architectures. instead, some argue, progress almost entirely comes from scaling up compute power, datas…
118. Angela Fan - Generating Wikipedia articles with AI [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:44
Generating well-referenced and accurate Wikipedia articles has always been an important problem: Wikipedia has essentially become the Internet's encyclopedia of record, and hundreds of millions of people use it do unders…
117. Beena Ammanath - Defining trustworthy AI [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:46
Trustworthy AI is one of today’s most popular buzzwords. But although everyone seems to agree that we want AI to be trustworthy, definitions of trustworthiness are often fuzzy or inadequate. Maybe that shouldn’t be surpr…
116. Katya Sedova - AI-powered disinformation, present and future [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:24
Until recently, very few people were paying attention to the potential malicious applications of AI. And that made some sense: in an era where AIs were narrow and had to be purpose-built for every application, you’d need…
115. Irina Rish - Out-of-distribution generalization [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:12
Imagine, for example, an AI that’s trained to identify cows in images. Ideally, we’d want it to learn to detect cows based on their shape and colour. But what if the cow pictures we put in the training dataset always sho…
114. Sam Bowman - Are we *under-hyping* AI? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:48
Google the phrase “AI over-hyped”, and you’ll find literally dozens of articles from the likes of Forbes, Wired, and Scientific American, all arguing that “AI isn’t really as impressive at it seems from the outside,” and…
113. Yaron Singer - Catching edge cases in AI [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:20
It’s no secret that AI systems are being used in more and more high-stakes applications. As AI eats the world, it’s becoming critical to ensure that AI systems behave robustly — that they don’t get thrown off by unusual…
110. Alex Turner - Will powerful AIs tend to seek power? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:57
Today’s episode is somewhat special, because we’re going to be talking about what might be the first solid quantitative study of the power-seeking tendencies that we can expect advanced AI systems to have in the future.…