The ethics of ought (not) to: Conversion practices

The ethics of ought (not) to: Conversion practices

Author: Charts & Leisure June 30, 2026 Duration: 42:21

Special day early episode drop for this, our third episode of our Pride Month series on conversion practices, we welcome Dr. Gerald (Jerry) Davison, a pioneering psychologist whose work helped change the mental health field's understanding of sexual orientation. Dr. Davison reflects on his early career in the 1960s, when homosexuality was still classified as a mental disorder and attempts to change sexual orientation were considered acceptable practice. He shares how experience and evidence led him to reject these approaches and become an early advocate for gay-affirmative therapy.
Dr. Davison recounts the pivotal moments that changed his thinking, including a landmark 1972 conference where conversations with LGBTQ+ activists challenged the ethics of conversion practices. He discusses the professional risks of publicly opposing efforts to change a person's sexual orientation, the resistance he encountered, and the heartfelt responses from LGBTQ+ clinicians and individuals who found hope in his message.
The conversation also examines the lasting harm caused by conversion practices and why they continue despite decades of evidence. Dr. Davison reflects on the responsibility of therapists to combine scientific evidence with ethical care and to always "do no harm." This episode offers an important historical perspective and a timely reminder of the need for affirming, compassionate mental health care for LGBTQIA+ people.

Links
"Conversion" (2022) documentary on Amazon Prime
More about Dr. Gerald Davison
Trevor Project (Affirming care resources)


There’s a thread that connects our inner lives to the culture we live in, and Unravelling pulls on it to see what emerges. This isn’t a lecture series, but a conversation guided by therapist Kurt White and journalist Mary Wilson, who bring their distinct perspectives to every discussion. They explore how mental health is woven into everything from our daily fitness routines and societal pressures to the art we consume and the relationships we keep. In each episode, you’ll hear from experts who study the mind alongside individuals sharing their personal, lived experiences, creating a dialogue that feels both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. The aim is to move beyond simple definitions, examining how anxiety, resilience, joy, and struggle shape our collective reality. Produced by Charts & Leisure, this podcast provides a space for nuance, challenging the idea that our psychological worlds exist in a vacuum. It’s for anyone who has ever felt the tension between their private thoughts and the public world, offering not easy answers but a more textured understanding. By listening, you become part of a broader exploration into how compassion, for ourselves and our society, can actually be built from a place of genuine curiosity.
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