When The Ribbon Cutting Is the Cheapest Part

When The Ribbon Cutting Is the Cheapest Part

Author: Strong Towns May 13, 2026 Duration: 41:17
Des Moines just approved an $8.4 million first phase for a $54 million park overhaul. The bid came in over estimate, and there's no maintenance plan in sight — meanwhile the city was cutting services 9% across the board just last year. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with parks consultant Jamie Sabbach, author of the new book The Bison Principle, and writer Michel Durand-Wood about what cities consistently leave out of these decisions. Construction is only about 20% of what a public asset costs over its lifetime, and most cities aren't planning for the rest. The conversation gets into maintenance backlogs, why capital and operating budgets are really the same money, and what a city would actually decide if the 50-year cost were part of the conversation from the start. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Birdland Park's $54M Overhaul Moves into Construction Phase" by Jason Clayworth, Axios.com (April 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Jamie Sabbach (LinkedIn), The Bison Principle (Book) Dear Winnipeg (Site), You'll Pay For This! (Book) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: In Praise of Background Buildings by Gracen Johnson Places and Non-Places by Andrew Price Field of Schemes Fizzy Fuzzy Big & Buzzy - Album by The Refreshments Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert Caro The 99% Invisible Breakdown of The Power Broker Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Each week, Upzoned takes a single, pressing story from the world of urban development, municipal policy, and community economics and holds it up to the light. Hosts Abby Kinney and Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns, sometimes joined by a guest, don't just skim the headlines. They dig into the nuances of a specific zoning decision, a new infrastructure project, or a shifting demographic trend, asking what it reveals about how we actually build our cities, towns, and neighborhoods. The conversation is grounded in the practical, bottom-up philosophy of the Strong Towns movement, making complex topics accessible and immediately relevant. This isn't a broad news recap; it's a focused, thoughtful dissection for anyone curious about why their community looks and functions the way it does. You'll hear informed debate, critical analysis, and a persistent questioning of conventional wisdom, all aimed at understanding how we can create places that are financially resilient and genuinely enriching for the people who live in them. Tune in for a deeper, more substantive take on the stories that shape our shared spaces.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Upzoned
Podcast Episodes
The $600K Snow Budget That Became a $6 Million Problem [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:17
A Massachusetts town budgeted $600,000 for snow and ended up spending $6 million clearing its streets. Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Daniel Herriges, and Gracen Johnson trace the links between winter operations, stormwater,…
What LA’s Trash Problem Reveals About Its Streets [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:17
While Los Angeles gets ready for the Olympics and World Cup, residents watch trash pile up in the places tourists never see. Chuck, Norm, and Carlee trace the links between auto‑oriented growth, a strained city budget, a…
Why a Legal Home Addition Sparked Outrage in Fairfax County [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:14
A multigenerational home addition sparked national attention and local outrage in Fairfax County, Virginia. Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt sits down with guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman to explore why legally…
Zoning Reform Is Only Step 1 in Fighting the Housing Crisis [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:16
Utah wants to override local zoning to boost housing supply, but allowed by right doesn't mean possible in practice. Abby and Edward dig into the hidden barriers — complicated permits, scarce financing, and broken system…
What Happens When Official Decisions Clash With Community Traditions? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:32
Who decides when community traditions change? Lafayette, Louisiana, recently rerouted its Mardi Gras parade. The goal was to improve public safety, but the change left neighborhoods, businesses, and long-standing customs…
How To Fix Washington DC's New Rules for Outdoor Dining [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:42
Last week, we heard how DC's outdoor dining regulations threaten local businesses. Today, urban designers Abby Newsham and Edward Erfurt explore how DC could course-correct. They share creative ways that cities can maint…
DC Is Charging Thousands for Outdoor Dining. Is This a Good Idea? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:04
Washington DC is charging restaurants thousands of dollars to keep their streateries — outdoor dining areas built during Covid-19. Are these fees fair compensation for public space, or will they kill the local businesses…
5 Ways Ordinary People Are Making Their Places Stronger [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:07
Abby is joined by Carlee Alm-LaBar, the chief of staff for Strong Towns, and John Reuter, advisory board member for Strong Towns. They discuss several stories of people across the country taking action to make their comm…
Will Elon Musk's Data Centers Actually Help Memphis? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:26
Elon Musk's company xAI is building massive data centers in Memphis, promising economic transformation. But at what cost? Abby is joined by Strong Towns Blog Editor and podcast host Asia Mieleszko to dissect the billion-…
Historic Bridge Battle: Will 1 Town Profit While the Other Pays? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 23:30
Two towns, two states, and two historic bridges that nobody wants to pay for. Brattleboro, Vermont, wants to reactivate two historic bridges with a pedestrian greenway. Hinsdale, New Hampshire, worries about increased cr…