21.04: Deconstructing the Hero's Journey

21.04: Deconstructing the Hero's Journey

Author: Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler January 25, 2026 Duration: 25:46
In this episode, our hosts take on the Hero’s Journey—where it came from, why it endures, and why it can make writers uneasy. They break it down as a tool (and not a rule), exploring how pattern recognition works in storytelling without turning structure into a formula. Along the way, they discuss reluctant heroes, mentors, departures, and returns, using familiar examples from fantasy, film, and beyond. The conversation also digs into how stories can satisfy expectations—or deliberately invert them—without becoming predictable or tropey. Homework: Take a simple outline of the Hero’s Journey (we’ll include one in the liner notes). On an index card or Post-it, list as many stories, films, or shows as you can that follow this pattern, just to see how and where it shows up. ANNOUNCEMENTS: 2/15 Cruise Prices Increase The final WXR cruise* sets sail for Alaska in September 2026—get your tickets now before prices increase on February 15th! Credits: Your hosts for this episode were Erin Roberts, DongWon Song, and Howard Tayler. It was produced by Emma Reynolds, recorded by Marshall Carr, Jr., and mastered by Alex Jackson. Join Our Writing Community! Writing Retreats Newsletter Patreon Instagram Threads Bluesky TikTok YouTube Facebook Our Sponsors: * Check out HomeServe and use my code homeserve.com/excuses for a great deal: https://www.homeserve.com * Check out Talkiatry and use my code Talkiatry.com/WX for a great deal: https://www.talkiatry.com Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/writing-excuses2130/donations Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

It’s a common piece of advice: if you want to be a writer, you should write. But what happens when you’re staring at the blank page, or when the business side of publishing feels like a maze? That’s where Writing Excuses comes in. Each week, hosts Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler gather not just to talk about writing, but to dissect it. They move quickly, respecting your time while packing episodes with actionable discussions on technique, from character voice to plot structure. But this podcast understands that a writing life isn’t just about craft-it’s also a career. So conversations naturally pivot to the practicalities of the business, navigating careers, and sustaining creativity in a demanding field. You’ll hear five distinct professional perspectives blending into a single, focused conversation designed to get you past excuses and back to your work. It’s like a regular, invigorating workshop session delivered directly to you, meant to equip you with tools for both your manuscript and your professional path.
Author: Language: en-us Episodes: 500

Writing Excuses
Podcast Episodes
16.46: World and Plot: The Only Constant is Change [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:51
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, Fonda Lee, Mary Robinette Kowal, and Howard Tayler In our world, the ostensibly "real" one (simulation theory notwithstanding), stuff is changing all the time. Why, then, do we see so many fantasy…
16.45: World and Character Part 2: Moral Frame [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 18:31
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, Fonda Lee, Mary Robinette Kowal, and Howard Tayler Let's follow up on character biases with an exploration of moral frame. When we say someone is "morally gray" or "morally ambiguous," what we're r…
16.44: World and Character Part 1: All Your Characters Are Biased [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 17:14
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, Fonda Lee, Mary Robinette Kowal, and Howard Tayler The world of your book is most often shown to us through the eyes of the characters who live in that world. In this episode we discuss the fact th…
16.42: M.I.C.E. Quotient, After the Fact [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 17:50
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, C.L. Polk, Charlotte Forfieh, and Mary Robinette Kowal Our eighth and final M.I.C.E. Quotient discussion will explore using M.I.C.E. as a diagnostic tool. So... your manuscript is done, but somethi…
16.41: Middles and Conflicts with M.I.C.E. Structure [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:42
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, C.L. Polk, Charlotte Forfieh, and Mary Robinette Kowal With the M.I.C.E. elements (Milieu, Inquiry, Character, and Event) explained, and the concept of nesting, or braiding the M.I.C.E. threads, we…
16.40: Nesting Threads in the M.I.C.E. Quotient [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 19:25
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, C.L. Polk, Charlotte Forfieh, and Mary Robinette Kowal Now that we've drilled down into each of the M.I.C.E. elements (Milieu, Inquiry, Character, and Event) it's time to explore nesting them. This…
16.39: Deep Dive into “Event” [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 20:04
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, C.L. Polk, Charlotte Forfieh, and Mary Robinette Kowal Our fifth M.I.C.E. Quotient episode focuses on the “Event” element, and explores how to use disruption of the status quo as the driving elemen…
16.38: Deep Dive into “Character” [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 19:14
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, C.L. Polk, Charlotte Forfieh, and Mary Robinette Kowal Our fourth M.I.C.E. Quotient episode explores the “Character” element, and how these angsty, navel-gazing voyages of self-examination can serv…
16.37: Deep Dive Into “Inquiry” [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 22:03
Your Hosts: Dan Wells, C.L. Polk, Charlotte Forfieh, and Mary Robinette Kowal Our third M.I.C.E. Quotient episode asks about the "Inquiry" element, and the ways in which we can use this element to structure our stories—w…