21.04: Deconstructing the Hero's Journey

21.04: Deconstructing the Hero's Journey

Author: Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler January 25, 2026 Duration: 25:46
In this episode, our hosts take on the Hero’s Journey—where it came from, why it endures, and why it can make writers uneasy. They break it down as a tool (and not a rule), exploring how pattern recognition works in storytelling without turning structure into a formula. Along the way, they discuss reluctant heroes, mentors, departures, and returns, using familiar examples from fantasy, film, and beyond. The conversation also digs into how stories can satisfy expectations—or deliberately invert them—without becoming predictable or tropey. Homework: Take a simple outline of the Hero’s Journey (we’ll include one in the liner notes). On an index card or Post-it, list as many stories, films, or shows as you can that follow this pattern, just to see how and where it shows up. ANNOUNCEMENTS: 2/15 Cruise Prices Increase The final WXR cruise* sets sail for Alaska in September 2026—get your tickets now before prices increase on February 15th! Credits: Your hosts for this episode were Erin Roberts, DongWon Song, and Howard Tayler. It was produced by Emma Reynolds, recorded by Marshall Carr, Jr., and mastered by Alex Jackson. Join Our Writing Community! Writing Retreats Newsletter Patreon Instagram Threads Bluesky TikTok YouTube Facebook Our Sponsors: * Check out HomeServe and use my code homeserve.com/excuses for a great deal: https://www.homeserve.com * Check out Talkiatry and use my code Talkiatry.com/WX for a great deal: https://www.talkiatry.com Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/writing-excuses2130/donations Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

It’s a common piece of advice: if you want to be a writer, you should write. But what happens when you’re staring at the blank page, or when the business side of publishing feels like a maze? That’s where Writing Excuses comes in. Each week, hosts Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler gather not just to talk about writing, but to dissect it. They move quickly, respecting your time while packing episodes with actionable discussions on technique, from character voice to plot structure. But this podcast understands that a writing life isn’t just about craft-it’s also a career. So conversations naturally pivot to the practicalities of the business, navigating careers, and sustaining creativity in a demanding field. You’ll hear five distinct professional perspectives blending into a single, focused conversation designed to get you past excuses and back to your work. It’s like a regular, invigorating workshop session delivered directly to you, meant to equip you with tools for both your manuscript and your professional path.
Author: Language: en-us Episodes: 500

Writing Excuses
Podcast Episodes
12.30: Tools for Writers [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 20:46
Your Hosts: Brandon, Piper, Dan, and Howard We are often asked what software we use to get our work done. In this episode we answer that question in a bit of detail. Liner Notes: Here's a linked list of the tools referen…
12.29: “Oh Crap, the Cops are Here!” with Joe McKinney [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 20:50
Your Hosts: Howard and Dan, with Steve Diamond, and special guest Joe McKinney We invited Steve Diamond, who has been a guest before, and who has some law enforcement background, to help us grill Joe McKinney, who has to…
12.28: Trimming and Expanding [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 19:48
Your Hosts: Brandon, Mary, Mary Anne, and Wesley Revision: it's when you make a too-short piece longer, or a too-long piece shorter. (It's also a great many other things, suggesting that this description is a too-short p…
12.27: Choosing a Length [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:51
Your Hosts: Brandon, Mary, Dan, and Howard We discuss the ways in which we decide upon the length of the stories we write, and at which point(s) in the creative process we make that decision. Liner Notes: This is the sto…
12.26: Q&A on Outlining and Discovery Writing [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 20:31
Your Hosts: Brandon, Piper, Dan, and Howard Our listeners had questions about outlining and discovery writing. Here are a few of the very best: * Do you outline scenes? How? * How do you know when to STOP outlining somet…
12.25: Hiring an Editor, with Callie Stoker [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 18:51
Your Hosts: Howard and Dan, with special guest Callie Stoker Callie Stoker joined Howard and Dan at the World Horror convention to answer our questions about hiring an editor, which is part of the process by which self-p…
12.24: Creating Great Outlines [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 20:48
Your Hosts: Brandon, Mary, Mary Anne, and Wesley How might you go about creating great outlines? There are many processes, and we cover several of them. Credits: This episode was recorded by Andrew Twiss, and mastered by…
12.23: Proposals, Pitches, and Queries [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:30
Your Hosts: Brandon, Mary, Dan, and Howard Let's talk about selling your stuff. In this episode we discuss query letters, pitches, and proposals—the tools that you use to present your material to people who can pay you f…
12.22: Hybrid Outlining and Discovery Writing [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 18:58
Your Hosts: Brandon, Piper, Dan, and Howard What can discovery writers learn from outlining? What can outliners learn from discovery writing? Is there a balance between the two that can serve as a happy, productive place…
12.21: Narrative Bumper Pool, with Bill Fawcett and Carrie Patel [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 20:28
Your Hosts: Howard and Dan, with special guests Bill Fawcett and Carrie Patel Bill and Carrie both have extensive experience writing for games, and they joined us at GenCon Indy to talk about writing for an interactive s…