#190 – Eric Schwitzgebel on whether the US is conscious

#190 – Eric Schwitzgebel on whether the US is conscious

Author: The 80,000 Hours team June 7, 2024 Duration: 2:00:46

"One of the most amazing things about planet Earth is that there are complex bags of mostly water — you and me – and we can look up at the stars, and look into our brains, and try to grapple with the most complex, difficult questions that there are. And even if we can’t make great progress on them and don’t come to completely satisfying solutions, just the fact of trying to grapple with these things is kind of the universe looking at itself and trying to understand itself. So we’re kind of this bright spot of reflectiveness in the cosmos, and I think we should celebrate that fact for its own intrinsic value and interestingness." —Eric Schwitzgebel

In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez speaks to Eric Schwitzgebel — professor of philosophy at UC Riverside — about some of the most bizarre and unintuitive claims from his recent book, The Weirdness of the World.

Links to learn more, highlights, and full transcript.

They cover:

  • Why our intuitions seem so unreliable for answering fundamental questions about reality.
  • What the materialist view of consciousness is, and how it might imply some very weird things — like that the United States could be a conscious entity.
  • Thought experiments that challenge our intuitions — like supersquids that think and act through detachable tentacles, and intelligent species whose brains are made up of a million bugs.
  • Eric’s claim that consciousness and cosmology are universally bizarre and dubious.
  • How to think about borderline states of consciousness, and whether consciousness is more like a spectrum or more like a light flicking on.
  • The nontrivial possibility that we could be dreaming right now, and the ethical implications if that’s true.
  • Why it’s worth it to grapple with the universe’s most complex questions, even if we can’t find completely satisfying solutions.
  • And much more.

Chapters:

  • Cold open |00:00:00|
  • Luisa’s intro |00:01:10|
  • Bizarre and dubious philosophical theories |00:03:13|
  • The materialist view of consciousness |00:13:55|
  • What would it mean for the US to be conscious? |00:19:46|
  • Supersquids and antheads thought experiments |00:22:37|
  • Alternatives to the materialist perspective |00:35:19|
  • Are our intuitions useless for thinking about these things? |00:42:55|
  • Key ingredients for consciousness |00:46:46|
  • Reasons to think the US isn’t conscious |01:01:15|
  • Overlapping consciousnesses [01:09:32]
  • Borderline cases of consciousness |01:13:22|
  • Are we dreaming right now? |01:40:29|
  • Will we ever have answers to these dubious and bizarre questions? |01:56:16|


Producer and editor: Keiran Harris
Audio engineering lead: Ben Cordell
Technical editing: Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong
Additional content editing: Katy Moore and Luisa Rodriguez
Transcriptions: Katy Moore


The 80,000 Hours Podcast, from The 80,000 Hours team, digs into the complex and often overlooked questions surrounding how we can best use our careers to tackle the world's most pressing problems. While artificial intelligence is a recurring and critical theme, framing some of the most important conversations you won't hear elsewhere, the discussions range far wider into the intersections of technology, policy, philosophy, and global priorities. Hosts Rob Wiblin, Luisa Rodriguez, and Zershaaneh Qureshi guide in-depth interviews with researchers, policymakers, and practitioners, breaking down daunting ideas into actionable insights. You'll hear nuanced analyses of career paths, ethical dilemmas in emerging tech, and evidence-based strategies for creating a positive impact. This isn't about quick tips; it's about deep, substantive exploration of how specific choices and systemic changes can lead to a better future. The podcast lives in the Education and Technology categories because it fundamentally aims to equip listeners with the knowledge and perspective to navigate a rapidly changing world thoughtfully. Each episode is built on rigorous research, challenging assumptions while maintaining a conversational and accessible tone. Tune in for a consistently engaging and intellectually honest look at the forces shaping our century and the practical steps individuals can take within their own 80,000-hour working lives to make a meaningful difference.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

80,000 Hours Podcast
Podcast Episodes
What makes for a dream job? | Benjamin Todd [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 28:18
What actually makes a job fulfilling? It's not what most career advice tells you. "Follow your passion" sounds inspiring, but it's misleading — and the research backs that up.Drawing on hundreds of studies, we’ve identif…
How scary is Claude Mythos? 303 pages in 21 minutes [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:27
With Claude Mythos we have an AI that knows when it's being tested, can obscure its reasoning when it wants, and is better at breaking into (and out of) computers than any human alive. Rob Wiblin works through its 244-pa…