The Two Tracks of Justice

The Two Tracks of Justice

Author: Slate Podcasts May 24, 2025 Duration: 1:09:36

This week’s episode attempts to understand the ways in which the law of Trump unfolds along two tracks at the same time. First, Mark Joseph Stern joins us to talk about the Supreme Court’s decision to let Trump fire the heads of independent agencies, undermining a 90-year-old precedent in an unsigned, two-page decision on the shadow docket. This is a case in which Donald Trump’s agenda perfectly aligns with the wishlist of the conservative supermajority that controls the court. But if the court keeps giving Trump free passes to break the law now, why should we expect him to respect the court when it tries to draw the line later?

Then Dahlia Lithwick talks to the University of Chicago’s Aziz Huq about the idea of a “dual state,” a legal arrangement in which seismic changes happen in ways that are not perceptible to the bulk of the citizens. Drawing from the work of a Jewish lawyer who witnessed the dual state operate in Nazi Germany in the 1930s, Huq explains that authoritarians can seize the levers of the law to persecute disfavored groups, without disturbing the idea of the rule of law for the great majority of the nation.

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Dahlia Lithwick guides Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts through the complex and often opaque world of the American legal system. This isn't just a dry recap of rulings; it's a vital exploration of how the law shapes lives, freedoms, and the very fabric of society. The focus frequently rests on the Supreme Court, unpacking the philosophies, personalities, and profound consequences stemming from its nine justices. Each episode seeks to demystify the court's operations and its towering influence on everything from civil rights to everyday governance. You'll hear insightful conversations with legal scholars, journalists, and practitioners who provide clarity on landmark decisions and the simmering cases poised to change the nation. Produced by Slate Podcasts, this series operates with the understanding that justice is not a static concept but a living, breathing, and fiercely debated process. The podcast serves as an essential companion for anyone striving to understand the forces that govern us, offering narrative depth and analytical rigor far beyond the headlines. For those who want to dive deeper, a Slate Plus membership offers additional weekly episodes with extended legal analysis, alongside an ad-free listening experience across Slate's network.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts
Podcast Episodes
What We Got Wrong About SCOTUS in 2025 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:58
Over the past calendar year, the Supreme Court’s center has shifted to the right and then more to the right, and the justices’ decisions have time and again facilitated Trump’s agenda. But the Roberts majority is not sim…
The Forgotten Lawsuits Targeting Trump’s Worst Abuses [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:50
In mid-March of 2025, ACLU attorney Lee Gelernt and his colleagues started hearing that the Trump administration might attempt a flagrantly lawless publicity stunt, involving migrant men, secret flights to El Salvador, a…
One Amendment Explains It All [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:47
Trump decided this past week that there was no downside to fully embracing the racist “shithole countries” rhetoric he denied seven years ago; but this mask coming fully off is just the latest chapter in a decades-long c…
SCOTUS Greenlights Trump, Gaslights America [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:35
While the Secretary of Defense pursues lawless boat strikes with a laser focus on maximum trolling, the Supreme Court is working to undermine voting rights with a laser focus on maximum support for Republicans. In this w…
The Three Faces Of Trumpism [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:20
By design – and also by dint of unbridled, undisciplined extremist exuberance – Donald Trump’s second stint in the White House is thus far a tricky thing to characterize. While many of the administration’s moves seem cop…
The DOJ's Prosecutorial Malpractice Keeps Spilling Out in Court [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:20
Dahlia Lithwick is joined by former federal prosecutor Mimi Rocah, who brings her extensive experience trying and supervising federal criminal cases to a discussion of what the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein’s sexual abuse…
He Quit the Bench to Raise the Alarm [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:15:50
Dahlia Lithwick welcomes retired federal judge Mark Wolf for his first ever podcast interview. The Reagan-appointed jurist made headlines last week with his searing indictment of the threat posed to the rule of law and d…
When Tariffs Crashed Into SCOTUS [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:17
The Republican-appointed Supreme Court justices have been treating the Trump administration with such extreme deference that we were honestly a little flummoxed listening to this week’s arguments over his “Liberation Day…
The Federal Judiciary Is Trapped [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:26
“The Chief Justice… is presiding over the end of the rule of law in America”. That quote did not come from host Dahlia Lithwick, but this week’s guest, former Federal Circuit Court Judge and George H. W. Bush appointee,…
Demolition Man [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:55
Bulldozers and bulwarks are the twin themes of this week’s show, as Dahlia Lithwick is joined by Joyce White Vance, a longtime federal prosecutor and clarion voice in defense of the rule of law, despite its flaws. As Pam…