219: Sorbs Not Sulfites

219: Sorbs Not Sulfites

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 15, 2020 Duration: 1:19:06

Sorbus Domestica enthusiast Arnould Narazian of Paris France, shares his knowledge and passion for this King of all Pommes. This "Service Tree's wood was used for wooden screws used in wine presses and the fruit to help cure ailing cider and wine.

This chat was recorded at Cidrexpo in February 2020 in Caen France.

The main chat begins at 9:20 minutes

Arnould Nazarian Arnould Nazarian

What are some of the cultural/traditional name for Sorbus Domestica?

  • North of France it is called "Cormé"
  • South of France it is referred to as "Sorb"
  • Service Tree
  • Spierling - German

What inspired Arnould's affection for Sorbus Domestica

A dream and a visit to a train station in the north of Paris called Gare d'Achères–Grand-Cormier based to the North west of Paris in the town of Achères

What are the special attributes of Sorbus Domestica?

  • Sorb was used for making mechanical devices such as cog wheels for mills. This was very important for milling up corn and grains for food. These mechanisms came about in the Middle Ages of the 11-12th century
  • The wood was also used for the main screw used to press both wine and olives for olive oil. And, early printing presses used Sorb wood too!

germinating Sorbus Domestica seeds

Germinating Sorbus Domestica seeds

Germinating Sorbus Domestica

For the seeds to geminate they must be eaten by a bird or rabbit first.

But Arnould has since found some other ways to germinate this King of Pommes.

  • Source seeds in October/November - they must be immediately be placed into moist sand.
  • Then placed in a refrigerator at 2degree Celsius or 35 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • Then the seeds are put outdoors in March
  • The odds of the seed germinating is 95%.

Sorbs like

  • Sandy soil
  • Sun light
  • Not a lot of water
  • And the roots can be 6-8 meters down which translate to 26 feet!

Sorb Fruit Sorb Fruit

What does the Sorb fruit look like?

The fruit of a Sorbus Domestica look like miniature apples and pears and have a range of colors from red, green, yellow and orange. The shape can be round or pear like.

Are there different varieties of Sorbus Domestica?

Arnould says yes, but those varieties are now lost.

Sorbs though large have a special attribute that enables farmers to plant these trees in crop fields

Arnould calls the leaves "Peanut Leaves" which means they are small and thus cast a very light shadow for the surrounding area

The Day of the Cormé - a celebration of Sorb held in November

Buy trees, marmalade, wood products, held in Normandy.

Contact Arnould

Mentions in this Chat

Sorbus Domestica -t shirt at Cider Chat Teepublic Store

Sorbus Domestica -t shirt
at Cider Chat Teepublic Store

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
019: Neil MacDonald | Orchard Park Farms, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:10
Neil MacDonald is a self described "man of the soil". He co-launched Orchard Pig Cider in 2004. His specialty is apple growing and the primary process of the cidermaking at Orchard Pig Cider. This recording was taped wit…
018: Darlene Hayes | Cider Cocktails, California [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:55
You might know Darlene Hayes by her blog All into Cider. There you can find some quick cider cocktail lore and recipes. Yes, Cider Cocktails are hot…again! That's right, again! Mixing spirits with cider has been favored…
017: Got Juice? | Apple Juice Supplier, US to UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:30
Getting the right blend or single variety juice to make the perfect cider is part of every business plan for cideries both in the startup phase an ongoing. If you are not growing your own orchard, getting apple juice cou…
016: John Bunker | Super Chilly Farm, Maine [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:41
John Bunker "Friend of Apples" John Bunker in this chat helps to trace the lineage in the US between cider apples and cidermakers. If you ever doubted whether you are on the right track with your cidermaking skills, Have…
015: Chris Jackson | FreedomFarmTV, Georgia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:05
At Freedom Farm, cider is on! Chris Jackson who is new to cidermaking has an enthusiasm for fermenting that is contagious. At the Farm his family is working towards sustainability and he is blogging about it all, via his…
014: Joe Getz | Kurant Cider, Pennsylvania [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:18
Kurant Cider co-owner and head cidermaker, Joe Getz's business is expanding, just after one year into producing cider commercially in the eastern region of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia. Besides making cider at Ku…
013: Ryal Schallenberger | Northwest Mobile Juicing, Montana [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:16
Mechanical engineer and entrepreneur Ryal Schallenberger is helping cidermakers throughout the northwest by providing a mobile juicing service. He drives truck and trailer right in to the orchard and in 30-minutes is rea…
012: Randall Grahm | Bonny Doon Vineyard, California [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:05
Who is Randall Grahm Randall Grahm has been rocking the world of winemaking for over 30 years. He began commercially selling wine under the Bonny Doon Vineyard label in 1983 when he opened the winery's tasting room in th…
011: Cider in a Kvervi at Castle Hill Cider | Virginia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:42
Wooden barrels are so 2014. What is old is new again as Castle Hill Cider has brought to the states an ancient fermenting vessel that was used for over 7000 years. Qvevri or Kvevri, as it is called on this Virginia estat…
010: Margot Sanderse |Het Ciderhuis, Utrecht NL [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:48
Utrecht cider importer Margot Sanderse brings in ciders from the UK and Wales via her mobile bar and online shop Het Ciderhuis. She is an entrepreneur who is touting cider to the Dutch and slowly helping transform their…