237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist September 2, 2020 Duration: 48:21

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning.

Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell.

[Stormalong Cider cleaning crew episode 237 cider chat

Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong

What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place?

Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation

These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels

What materials to avoid?

Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket.

Chrome parts will always chip.

Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets

What is sanitary?

in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures

Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected. 

Cleaning theory

The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels

  • Time
  • Temperature
  • Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub)
  • Chemical concentration

In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result

Water won't get quite as hot as you like?

  • Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals.
  • Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough.  BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!

Biofilms

  • Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time
  • SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day)
  • A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket

Mentions in this Chat

Contact info for Stormalong

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
368: Who named this apple Northern Spy? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:30
Spy Novels Step Aside for an Apple of a Tale The Northern Spy is a delightful apple used both for baking and cidermaking! At one time it was a major export commodity due to its lack of bruising when packed in barrels. As…
367: Get Out of Jail Free Card w/Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:09
Weed, to Jail, and Freed by Cider There are so many title options for this episode, that all center around time spent in jail for one burgeoning cidermaker. "Busted Weed Grower Saved by Cider", was one that almost made t…
366:  Acclaimed Cider w/Minimal Intervention Tom Oliver [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:47
Not only is the cider acclaimed, so too is the Maker Tom Oliver is just as acclaimed as his cider which makes Oliver's Cider and Perry Co. a global hit on two fronts. He is affable, engaging and knows his way around soci…
365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:29
Is Cider Truly Indescribable? There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly f…
364: If the Mandalorian Tended Orchards [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:01
The Way of the Orchards Colin Scott has spent his life in orchards, learning how to tended them with his parents, Edward and Janice as role models. This episode is a testament of what it looks like to embody a craft as p…
363: Exploring Cider Using 33 Books Flavor Wheel [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:00
The Founder behind 33 Books Company Dave Selden created 33 Books to help all of us track our favorite and not so favorite beverages! He is a graphic designer by trade, but soon found himself making tasting note books as…
362: The Lost Boy Cider Journey | Virginia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:10
Tristan Wright the Lost Boy who Cider Found [ Tristan Wright on the French Cider Tour Tristan and Katie Wright are the owners of Lost Boy Cider, and now also the Lost Girl Wine brand, based in Alexandria, Virginia. Disco…
361: Is Sulfur Dioxide Necessary for Making Cider | CiderCon 2023 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:04
Is Sulfur dioxide (SO2) a natural part of Fermentation? In this episode pre-recorded at CiderCon 2023, you'll get to hear from cider makers who will share their knowledge and expertise on the topic of sulfur dioxide cide…
360: Taproom and Hospitality Tips | CiderCon 2023 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:41
Everything in the taproom should be adjustable This Taproom Tips workshop was presented at CiderCon 2023 by Katie Black and Megan MacLean and it is packed with info! In this episode A four prong approach to brand identit…
359: Vala's Cider for their 300,000 Annual Visitors | Nebraska [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:56
The Vala Family's Business Model Tim Vala had a vision over 39 years ago to build a destination for family fun. It started with a Upick strawberry patch that grew into a pumpking patch, orchard. It then evolved into kid…