237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist September 2, 2020 Duration: 48:21

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning.

Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell.

[Stormalong Cider cleaning crew episode 237 cider chat

Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong

What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place?

Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation

These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels

What materials to avoid?

Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket.

Chrome parts will always chip.

Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets

What is sanitary?

in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures

Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected. 

Cleaning theory

The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels

  • Time
  • Temperature
  • Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub)
  • Chemical concentration

In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result

Water won't get quite as hot as you like?

  • Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals.
  • Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough.  BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!

Biofilms

  • Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time
  • SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day)
  • A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket

Mentions in this Chat

Contact info for Stormalong

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
388: French Origins of American Apples | The Grand-Mères [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:11
Discover the Apple Grand-mères/Grandmothers of North America Todd Little-Siebold (Ph.D.) spoke at New York Apple Camp (2023) on a presentation titled the "Three Grandmothers" or Grand-mères in French. The sub title is "W…
387: American Cider Association CEO & CiderCon 2024 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:15
Catching up with Michelle McGrath CEO of the ACA CiderCon 2024 takes place in Portland, Oregon, making it the perfect time to chat with the American Cider Association's CEO Michelle McGrath. The Northwest Cider Associati…
386: Managing Cider's Secondary Fermentation - DIY Tips [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:49
The Purpose of Secondary Fermentation when Making Cider Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by; Clarification: During primary fermentation, yeast converts su…
385: Cider's Ki - Remix [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:03
Searching for Cider's Universal Life Force a.k.a: Ki Of course Cider has Ki , as it is related to the Japanese martial art Aikido. It all began when four words "Bravey, Wisdom, Love and Friendship" were spoken at New Yor…
384: Beginner Cider-Making Tips for Primary Fermentation [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:13
The process where fresh pressed apple juice is transformed into a delightful alcoholic beverage (cider) happens during primary fermentation. Before we get into the steps here is a list of Equipment and Ingredients you wi…
383: The Medlar Specialist & Her Delicious Medlar Book [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:28
Meet the Medlar Specialist Jane Steward, is the world's premier Medlar Specialist. She is both a Grower and Producer of medlar preserves at Eastgate Larder, based in the UK, and the Author of the first ever book featurin…
382: Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:04
Dive into cider making essentials. Learn the importance of pristine equipment and elevate your cider's quality. Ideal for beginners starting their journey. Tip #1: Understanding the Importance of Sanitation Sanitation is…
381: DIY Cider Making for Beginners [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:25
Cider Making at home is a Perfect DIY Cider Making is fun! If you are a cider fan who would like to try to make cider at home without breaking the bank, this episode is the perfect DIY project to start your journey. New…
380: The Legacy of the Downing Brothers: Architects of Nature [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 32:48
The Architectural and Horticultural Endeavors of the Downing Brothers In the realm of landscape design and horticulture, few names are as revered as those of Andrew Jackson Downing and his brother, Charles Downing. Throu…
379: The Intricacies of Cider Co-ferments [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:07
Delve deep into the realm of cider co-ferments Enjoy this special talk with a tasting of select co-ferments from New York Apple Camp 2023. Hear the discussion on techniques, flavors, and challenges. This talk was hosted…