237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist September 2, 2020 Duration: 48:21

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning.

Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell.

[Stormalong Cider cleaning crew episode 237 cider chat

Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong

What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place?

Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation

These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels

What materials to avoid?

Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket.

Chrome parts will always chip.

Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets

What is sanitary?

in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures

Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected. 

Cleaning theory

The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels

  • Time
  • Temperature
  • Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub)
  • Chemical concentration

In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result

Water won't get quite as hot as you like?

  • Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals.
  • Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough.  BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!

Biofilms

  • Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time
  • SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day)
  • A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket

Mentions in this Chat

Contact info for Stormalong

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
129: Cider Dinner w/Carlo Hein | Ramborn Cider Co, Luxembourg [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:41
Carlo Hein has always loved cider. That cider love and perhaps his work in renovation and sustainable energy spurred him and his friends to start a cidery. Upon noticing the fallen fruit and neglected apples trees in his…
128: Cider Wins Big | Beer Competition, Boston [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:09
Cider won big at the 23rd Annual Home-brew Competition held in Boston and put on by the Wort Processors - a home-brew club. Tom Bell's New World Cider won both Best in Show for cider and placed 3rd in the Best Overall in…
127: Western Michigan's Ridge Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:26
Matt DeLong grew up making cider and what he once called "Apple Wine". Western Michigan has what is known as the wine trail and there are lots of fruit wines, so it is no surprise that Matt first considered a career in t…
126: Little Pomona's Big Ciders | Herefordshire, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:36
Little Pomona's makers and founders, Susanna and James Forbes have a long history with libations. James worked as a wine buyer and marketer, while Susanna who started in physics became one of the UK's leading libation wr…
125: Prez. Vander Heide | USACM & Vander Mill [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:08
Paul Vander Heide opened Vander Mill a cidery based in Spring Lake Michigan in 2008. Some might think that 3000 square feet is a good size for a start up cidery and they would be right. But as Paul reminisces in this cha…
124: No input apples at Big Fish Cider | Virginia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:06:41
Kirk Billingsley has been charmed by cider ever since he was a kid. Coming home from school he fondly remembers being mentored by his dad who had a barrel of sweet cider (non fermented apple juice) outside the family's h…
123: The Perry Farmer in Loré, France [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:41
Poiré Fermier is French for Perry Farmer, which is only part of the story for the featured guest in this episode 123. Cidermaker Philippe and wife Marie-Claire Derouault also manage a herd of dairy cows who graze and laz…
122: Cider Behind the Scene in Normandy, France [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:47
Find this episode with photos and show notes and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Cider enthusiast Michel Dargent hosted Ria at his home in September 2017. Monsieur Dargent is a cider aficionado, makin…
121: Keeving Perry | Tieton Cider Works, WA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:07:18
Tieton Cider Works was founded by Marcus Roberts and is based in Yakima Washington. Tieton works with Harmony Orchards which has 55 acres of cider apples and perry pears. Marcus who takes a scientific approach to making…
120: Trevor Baker | Noble Cider, North Carolina [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:06:54
Noble Cider in Asheville, North Carolina opened in 2013 after Trevor Baker lost his job in online retail. He wasn't a cidermaker at the time, but he and his wife Joanna both enjoyed drinking cider. After taking a ciderma…