279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist July 7, 2021 Duration: 37:57

An Apology? By a Cider Judge

Busted! I am the cider judge who has been holding onto a memory from nearly 20 years ago. At that time there were very few commercial makers of cider and in turn there were very few entries into competitions. The apology stems from my time back then when I was one of the rare cider judges here in the states, thinking I knew something about cider. Looking back now I keep repeating the same phrase -

"I wish I knew then, What I know now... about cider."

The competition was called the Great International Beer & Cider Competition, but honestly I don't think cider was even included in the name in 2003 or 2004.  Despite that, we had three ciders to judge and likely 300+ beers.

Why an Apology?

Up to that point I had only tasted cider made here in the states. Despite having 10 years of experience with cider, I had no idea what a Normandy apple or cider tasted like. UK ciders were definitely not a thing in the US and are only recently becoming more available. It is only more recently that I had the pleasure of traveling to Asturias and experiencing Sidra. This has led me to believe that: A cider judge needs to not only drink a lot of cider, but also travel to the location where it is made to taste both the cider and the juice from which that cider is made.

It is all about the Juice!

The Billionaire's Apology279 apology to a billionaire feature 300x200

For years I knew that I had misjudged that cider back in the early 2000s and that became even more acutely true for me as I began to travel to Europe and taste the makers products at the site where they are made. Thus, when I got the opportunity to talk to the man who owned the brand "Hard Core" and to absolve myself from that misjudging I jumped at the chance.

Hard Core was launched  in 1997 and lasted up to 2011. It was under the umbrella of the Boston Beer Company which was founded by Jim Koch in 1984. I met Jim Koch this past June of 2021 and took that opportunity to apologize. Once down, I felt an immense about of relief, because I know that a cidery really relies on the words of judges, especially at a time when there were so few cideries.

But I won't say that it didn't feel totally great, especially when he told me that they were importing French and Italian apples for the Hard Core brand. That news compounded the sense of my misjudging even further again...if I knew then what I knew now I know I would have judged that cider differently.

Lesson learned from the Apology

  • Cider judges need to travel more to the producers or regions where the product is made.
  • Taste the juice of a single varietal apple or a blend - get to know the difference of that apple being grown in one region vs another.
  • Once you have tasted the juice then taste the cider. This step will help the judge fully realize the full potential of where the cider came from and where it can go. It will open nuances that would otherwise not be detected.

All makers should offer juice at their cideries!

Mentions in this chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
408: Cider's Pomological Life Coach | Know Your Roots, NY [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:57
Mike Biltonen and his wife Debbie founded Know Your Roots in 2008 and began offering a wide array of service for backyard and commercial orchardists in 2014. Mike This conversation tool place at the Berkshire Roundtable…
407: Cider Log Tutorial w/Frosty Twig [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:56
Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. A Cider Log Documents Ferments from Start to Finish Find a free downloadable Cider Log for your next ferment below! Dan Gallagher of Frosty Twig C…
406: Japan Is An Apple Country | Lee Reeve [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:10
Japan is not only Cherry Blossom, but also Apple Country! Lee Reeve of InCiderJapan kicks off this episode stating "Japan is Apple Country." And he is right… because Lee has been on the podcast 3x's and has taught listen…
405: Fruit, Flowers, & Feeling | Revel Cider, Ontario [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:07:08
Tariq Ahmed on the Founding and Fermentation Styles at Revel Revel Cider was founded in 2014 and is located in Ontario a little over one hour west of Niagara Falls. Hear Tariq tell how he both got into fermentation, how…
404: Uk's Ross Cider & Perry is Lit! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:23
Featuring Albert Johnson of Ross Cider and Perry Company Ross Cider and Perry is a family owned business located in the West Country of the United Kingdom in the region of Heredfordshire. The Johnson family have been far…
403: Botanist and Barrel Eclectic Ferments | NC [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:33
Meet one half of the family team at Botanist and Barrel Botanist and Barrel is a family owned and operated cidery. Kether Smith and brother Lyndon and their respective spouses Derick McGuffey and Amie Fields make the mag…
402: Michigan's Simply, Spectacular PIF Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:59
Meet the Founders of Presque Isle Farm Cider a.k.a PIF Molly and Dion Stepanski are the founders of of PIF Cider with an inviting Tasting Room located in Alpena, Michigan. They met in New Orleans where Dion was working a…
401: Celebrity Chef Brian Duffy Cider Pairing Tips [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:13
Chef Duffy Talks Cooking with Cider Chef Brian Duffy is one of the culinary's industry's most dynamic and innovative personalities. Chef Brian Duffy With a career that spans decades, He has been captivating audiences wit…
400: To Ciderville With Love [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:05
A Special Valentine to Ciderville with Love This episode is a special valentine to Ciderville with a little bit of help from the Talking Pommes and an eventful appearance by The Nose! We are in the Cider House reviewing…
399: Sweden Embraces Non Alcoholic Ciders at Pomologik [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:35
The Low ABV Cider Revolution in Sweden In Strängnäs Sweden, circa 2017, Johan Sjöstedt, Oskar Palm, and Patrik Svensk began selling ciders commercially under their brand Pomologik. They didn't set out to make low alcohol…