279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

279: Apology to the Billionaire Cidermaker

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist July 7, 2021 Duration: 37:57

An Apology? By a Cider Judge

Busted! I am the cider judge who has been holding onto a memory from nearly 20 years ago. At that time there were very few commercial makers of cider and in turn there were very few entries into competitions. The apology stems from my time back then when I was one of the rare cider judges here in the states, thinking I knew something about cider. Looking back now I keep repeating the same phrase -

"I wish I knew then, What I know now... about cider."

The competition was called the Great International Beer & Cider Competition, but honestly I don't think cider was even included in the name in 2003 or 2004.  Despite that, we had three ciders to judge and likely 300+ beers.

Why an Apology?

Up to that point I had only tasted cider made here in the states. Despite having 10 years of experience with cider, I had no idea what a Normandy apple or cider tasted like. UK ciders were definitely not a thing in the US and are only recently becoming more available. It is only more recently that I had the pleasure of traveling to Asturias and experiencing Sidra. This has led me to believe that: A cider judge needs to not only drink a lot of cider, but also travel to the location where it is made to taste both the cider and the juice from which that cider is made.

It is all about the Juice!

The Billionaire's Apology279 apology to a billionaire feature 300x200

For years I knew that I had misjudged that cider back in the early 2000s and that became even more acutely true for me as I began to travel to Europe and taste the makers products at the site where they are made. Thus, when I got the opportunity to talk to the man who owned the brand "Hard Core" and to absolve myself from that misjudging I jumped at the chance.

Hard Core was launched  in 1997 and lasted up to 2011. It was under the umbrella of the Boston Beer Company which was founded by Jim Koch in 1984. I met Jim Koch this past June of 2021 and took that opportunity to apologize. Once down, I felt an immense about of relief, because I know that a cidery really relies on the words of judges, especially at a time when there were so few cideries.

But I won't say that it didn't feel totally great, especially when he told me that they were importing French and Italian apples for the Hard Core brand. That news compounded the sense of my misjudging even further again...if I knew then what I knew now I know I would have judged that cider differently.

Lesson learned from the Apology

  • Cider judges need to travel more to the producers or regions where the product is made.
  • Taste the juice of a single varietal apple or a blend - get to know the difference of that apple being grown in one region vs another.
  • Once you have tasted the juice then taste the cider. This step will help the judge fully realize the full potential of where the cider came from and where it can go. It will open nuances that would otherwise not be detected.

All makers should offer juice at their cideries!

Mentions in this chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
398: Cider in Florida? Visit Green Bench Brewing, Mead & Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:04:26
Saint Peterburg on Florida's West Coast Welcomes Green Bench Green Bench can boast being a microbrewery, meadery, and cidery in a region where palm trees rule! Despite that small inconvenience of no apples trees to speak…
397: Nature Evolves in the Glass | Wildcraft Cider Works, OR [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:17:50
Fermentations Run without Fear at Wildcraft Sean Kelly founded Wildcraft Cider Works in 2014. His journey to cider making began in 2008. It follows his botanicals passion, quest for tree resources & conservation, in conc…
396: PDX Audio Clips | CiderCon 2024 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:08
Pre-conference PDX Audio Clips This Cider Chat Live features clips from CiderCon 2024 which took place in Portland, Oregon. What was particularly unique about this year was the ice storm that took place. Pictured below i…
395: PDX Tips for CiderCon 2024 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:32
Bookmark this episode for loads of Portland Oregon a.k.a. PDX Tips Oregon Cider Week and CiderCon 2024 are all converging in PDX and this episodes has all the tips you need arrive and hit the ground running. Portland res…
394: Cider Notes Heading Into 2024 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:54
It's time to make your Cider Notes for 2024 The list of cider notes can be quiet long, but in this episode we are going to make it doable and easy for you. In this Cider Chat on Cider Notes The Talking Pommes encourage R…
393: How to Wassail & Drink Hail [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 45:16
What does Wassail & Drink Hail mean? In this episode learn about meaning behind Wassail and Drink Hail from the Butler himself, Al Sax. A Wassail is a celebration of the orchards, most typically apple orchards to honor t…
392: Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Ohio [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:58
The Vodraska Brothers Chris & Matt of Bent Ladder In the midst of a rich farming legacy emerged Bent Ladder Cider and Wine, based in Doylestown Ohio. Chris and younger brother Matt Vodraska are following in their father…
391: Test Winters & Climate w/Saint Lawrence Nurseries (NY) Founder [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:45
Saint Lawrence Nurseries is a specialized tree nursery in New York state, renowned for its expertise in cold-hardy fruit and nut trees with a committment to sustainable and organic practices. The nursery, which was origi…
390: Renaissance Orchards Keeved & French Style Ciders | WA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:21
Meet Chris Rylands of Renaissance Orchards First there was Cider Supply and then Chris founded Renaissance Orchards with his wife Melinda. This move was a natural progression of a series of events that include resources…