Proton’s CTO: No company is going to jail for you

Proton’s CTO: No company is going to jail for you

Author: The Verge July 16, 2026 Duration: 1:24:15
We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: I’m talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software. There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test.  Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  Proton now offers an entire bundle of office services | The Verge Proton Mail helped FBI unmask anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ protester | 404Media Proton says it will leave Switzerland if this controversial law Is passed | Vice Age verification is a mess but we’re doing it anyway | The Verge Let’s build a children’s public internet | The Verge Let me see some ID: age verification is spreading across the internet | The Verge Why Chat Control 1.0 is the EU's most Orwellian law yet | Euronews Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the intersection of power, innovation, and consequence, you'll find Decoder with Nilay Patel. Hosted by The Verge's editor-in-chief, this isn't a typical business or technology podcast that simply recites the news. Instead, Nilay engages with founders, CEOs, legislators, and artists in substantive conversations that dissect the mechanics behind major decisions. The dialogue focuses on the real-world implications of big ideas, probing how today's choices in boardrooms and legislatures ripple out into society tomorrow. You'll hear guests articulate their toughest challenges, the trade-offs they've made, and the often-unseen forces shaping industries from social media and artificial intelligence to transportation and entertainment. Each episode is built on a foundation of genuine curiosity, aiming to unpack not just what is happening, but why it matters for the way we all live and work. Listening to this podcast feels like gaining access to a nuanced, behind-the-scenes briefing where strategy and philosophy collide. It's for anyone who suspects that the most important stories aren't the announcements themselves, but the human decisions, the unforeseen problems, and the ethical calculations that happen long before the headlines are written. Through these detailed conversations, Decoder provides a crucial lens on the architects of our modern world and the complex systems they are building, for better or worse.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Decoder with Nilay Patel
Podcast Episodes
Skydio CEO argues more drones will make us safer [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:13:17
Today, I’m talking with Slydio CEO Adam Bry, who runs the leading US maker of autonomous drones. We covered a lot in this conversation, including Skydio’s police and government work at a time when military use of AI is m…
Elon Musk is steamrolling Wall Street to become a trillionaire [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:51
My guest today is Ryan Mac, a technology reporter at The New York Times and co-author of the excellent book Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter, which came out in 2024. I wanted to have Ryan on today because…
AI is blowing up music. How should the Grammys handle it? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:53
I last talked to Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr in 2024 — when it was obvious that generative AI would upend the music industry, but not exactly clear how that would happen. Now, Harvey says AI is “omnipresent” in…
Rivian's software chief thinks you don't need CarPlay or buttons [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:09:59
Today, I’m talking with Wassym Bensaid, the chief software officer at Rivian, and the co-ceo of Rivian’s platform joint venture with Volkswagen. That joint venture, called RV Tech, is about a year and a half old, so I wa…
How Sundar Pichai is rethinking Google for the AI era [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:16
Connecting with Google CEO Sundar Pichai at I/O every year is one of my favorite Decoder traditions. This was our fifth year doing it, and there’s always a whole slew of new things to talk about. This year, in addition t…
Musk v Altman: Much ado about nothing [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:01
Musk v Altman was nominally about OpenAI's conversion to a for-profit entity, and how it went about that change. But really, the suit seems mostly to have been about Elon Musk being mad at Sam Altman — or at OpenAI, for…
Exclusive: Jonah Peretti explains why he sold BuzzFeed [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:22
Just days before we spoke, BuzzFeed co-founder and CEO Jonah Peretti agreed to sell the company, which was losing money and at risk of shutting down. Now there’s a new lease on life — and new leadership. Jonah is taking…
How companies weaponize the terms of service against you [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:36
Brendan Ballou is founder of the Public Integrity Project and author of the new book, When Companies Run the Courts, about the rise of forced arbitration. Forced arbitration is similarly everywhere in modern life, and th…