E33: Interview: Jessica Kerr on /Games: Agency as Art/

E33: Interview: Jessica Kerr on /Games: Agency as Art/

Author: Brian Marick June 6, 2023 Duration: 41:16

Jessica Kerr (known to computers everywhere as @jessitron) is a software developer, speaker, and symmathecist. (A symmathesy is a learning system composed of learning parts. To her, each software team is a symmathesy composed of the people on the team, the running software, and all of their tools.) @jessitron is another of those people who apply ideas from outside software to software, including in her role as a developer advocate at Honeycomb, a company that aims to make the workings of software visible to its developers. Were she not engaging, personable, and enthusiastic, she'd be scarily like me. This conversation is about C. Thi Nguyen's book Games: Agency as Art, whose blurb starts, "Games are a unique art form. Game designers don’t just create a world; they create who you will be in that world. They tell you what abilities to use and what goals to take on. In other words, games work in the medium of agency."

Jessitron links

References

In the podcast, I mentioned classic English country gardens. I riffed a bit on Tom Stoppard's play "Arcadia". It "explores the relationship between past and present, order and disorder, certainty and uncertainty. It has been praised by many critics as the finest play from 'one of the most significant contemporary playwrights' in the English language. In 2006, the Royal Institution of Great Britain named it one of the best science-related works ever written." I cut the riff out because – embarrassingly – I couldn't remember the names of either the play or its author. From personal experience, I can recommend this full cast performance for a road trip. On that trip, we also listened to the Alzabo Soup podcast's multi-episode commentary

Photo credit: me


Brian Marick hosts Oddly Influenced, a podcast that digs into the unusual and often overlooked connections between software development and the wider world. Each episode starts with a concept, theory, or practice that originated far from the realm of code-perhaps in sociology, theater, history, or urban planning-and traces its journey into the hands of software practitioners. The focus is on the concrete application: how these borrowed ideas were adapted, what problems they aimed to solve, and what actually happened when people tried them. You’ll hear about the successes, the surprising failures, and the messy, fascinating reality of translating an abstract principle into working practice. This isn’t about generic inspiration or vague parallels; it’s a detailed look at cross-disciplinary pollination, examining the mechanics of how influence actually works. The conversations are grounded and specific, avoiding hype to explore what we can genuinely learn from fields that don’t think in loops and logic. For anyone in technology or education curious about how innovation often comes from the edges, this podcast provides a unique and thoughtful perspective. It’s for listeners who enjoy deep dives into the history and sociology of their craft, who appreciate hearing stories that aren’t the usual case studies, and who are open to having their own thinking oddly influenced by the end of an episode.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 55

Oddly Influenced
Podcast Episodes
E42: The offloaded brain, part 2: applications [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:10
Suppose you believed that the ecological/embodied cognitive scientists of last episode had a better grasp on cognition than does our habitual position that the brain is a computer, passively perceiving the environment, t…
E41: The offloaded brain, part 1: behavior [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 31:52
Embodied or Ecological Cognition is an offshoot of cognitive science that rejects or minimizes one of its axioms: that the computer is a good analogy for the brain. That is, that the brain receives inputs from the senses…
EXCERPT: Concepts without categories [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 15:38
This excerpt from episode 40 contains material independent of that episode's topic (collaborative circles) that might be of interest to people who don't care about collaborative circles. It mostly discusses a claim, due…
EXCERPT: Christopher Alexander’s forces [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 14:29
Software design patterns were derived from the work of architect Christopher Alexander, specifically his book A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction. This excerpt (from episode 39) addresses a problem: most s…
E40: Roles in collaborative circles, part 2: creative roles [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 45:14
The last in the series on collaborative circles. The creative roles in a collaborative circle, discussed with reference to both Christopher Alexander's forces and ideas from ecological and embodied cognition. Special emp…
E39: Roles in collaborative circles, part 1 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 32:19
Farrell describes a number of distinct roles important to the development of a collaborative circle. This episode is devoted to the roles important in the early stages, when the circle is primarily about finding out what…
E38: The trajectory of a collaborative circle [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 27:52
Collaborative circles don't have a smooth trajectory toward creative breakthrough. I describe the more common trajectory. I also do a little speculation on how a circle's "shared vision" consists of goals, habits, and "a…
E37: Resilience engineering with Lorin Hochstein [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:36
An interview with Lorin Hochstein, resilience engineer and author. Our discussion was about how to handle a complex system that falls down hard and – especially – how to then prepare for the next incident. The discussion…
E36: BONUS: One circle-style history of Context-Driven Testing [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:52
I was a core member of what Farrell would call a collaborative circle: the four people who codified Context-Driven Testing. That makes me think I can supplement Farrell's account with what it feels like to be inside a ci…