E44: The offloaded brain, part 4: an interview with David Chapman

E44: The offloaded brain, part 4: an interview with David Chapman

Author: Brian Marick December 4, 2023 Duration: 43:55

In the '80s, David Chapman and Phil Agre were doing work within AI that was very compatible with the ecological and embodied cognition approach I've been describing. They produced a program, Pengi, that played a video game well enough (given the technology of the time) even though it had nothing like an internal representation of the game board and barely any persistent state at all. In this interview, David describes the source of their crazy ideas and how Pengi worked.

Pengi is more radically minimalist than what I've been thinking of as ecologically-inspired software design, so it makes a good introduction to the next episode.

Sources

Chapman links

Other

  • A recording of a Pengo game
  • The foundational text of ethnomethodology is notoriously (and, some – waves – think, gratuitously) opaque. I found Heritage's Garfinkel and Ethnomethodology far more readable. I've enjoyed the Em does Ca (conversational analysis) Youtube series. The episode on turn-construction units hits me where I live. She talks about how people know when, in a conversation, they're allowed to talk. I'm mildly bad at that in person. I'm somewhat worse when talking to a single person over video. I'm horrible at it when on a multiple-person conference call, with or without postage-stamp-sized video images of faces. 

Credits

The Pengo image is by Arcade Addiction. Retrieved from Wikipedia. Fair use.


Brian Marick hosts Oddly Influenced, a podcast that digs into the unusual and often overlooked connections between software development and the wider world. Each episode starts with a concept, theory, or practice that originated far from the realm of code-perhaps in sociology, theater, history, or urban planning-and traces its journey into the hands of software practitioners. The focus is on the concrete application: how these borrowed ideas were adapted, what problems they aimed to solve, and what actually happened when people tried them. You’ll hear about the successes, the surprising failures, and the messy, fascinating reality of translating an abstract principle into working practice. This isn’t about generic inspiration or vague parallels; it’s a detailed look at cross-disciplinary pollination, examining the mechanics of how influence actually works. The conversations are grounded and specific, avoiding hype to explore what we can genuinely learn from fields that don’t think in loops and logic. For anyone in technology or education curious about how innovation often comes from the edges, this podcast provides a unique and thoughtful perspective. It’s for listeners who enjoy deep dives into the history and sociology of their craft, who appreciate hearing stories that aren’t the usual case studies, and who are open to having their own thinking oddly influenced by the end of an episode.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 55

Oddly Influenced
Podcast Episodes
E41: The offloaded brain, part 1: behavior [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 31:52
Embodied or Ecological Cognition is an offshoot of cognitive science that rejects or minimizes one of its axioms: that the computer is a good analogy for the brain. That is, that the brain receives inputs from the senses…
EXCERPT: Concepts without categories [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 15:38
This excerpt from episode 40 contains material independent of that episode's topic (collaborative circles) that might be of interest to people who don't care about collaborative circles. It mostly discusses a claim, due…
EXCERPT: Christopher Alexander’s forces [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 14:29
Software design patterns were derived from the work of architect Christopher Alexander, specifically his book A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction. This excerpt (from episode 39) addresses a problem: most s…
E40: Roles in collaborative circles, part 2: creative roles [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 45:14
The last in the series on collaborative circles. The creative roles in a collaborative circle, discussed with reference to both Christopher Alexander's forces and ideas from ecological and embodied cognition. Special emp…
E39: Roles in collaborative circles, part 1 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 32:19
Farrell describes a number of distinct roles important to the development of a collaborative circle. This episode is devoted to the roles important in the early stages, when the circle is primarily about finding out what…
E38: The trajectory of a collaborative circle [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 27:52
Collaborative circles don't have a smooth trajectory toward creative breakthrough. I describe the more common trajectory. I also do a little speculation on how a circle's "shared vision" consists of goals, habits, and "a…
E37: Resilience engineering with Lorin Hochstein [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:36
An interview with Lorin Hochstein, resilience engineer and author. Our discussion was about how to handle a complex system that falls down hard and – especially – how to then prepare for the next incident. The discussion…
E36: BONUS: One circle-style history of Context-Driven Testing [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:52
I was a core member of what Farrell would call a collaborative circle: the four people who codified Context-Driven Testing. That makes me think I can supplement Farrell's account with what it feels like to be inside a ci…
E34: /Collaborative Circles/, part 1: a teaser [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 24:56
Michael P. Farrell's Collaborative Circles: Friendship Dynamics and Creative Work (2001) is about how groups of people ("circles") begin with discomfort about the status quo and, after collaboration and discussion, make…