E44: The offloaded brain, part 4: an interview with David Chapman

E44: The offloaded brain, part 4: an interview with David Chapman

Author: Brian Marick December 4, 2023 Duration: 43:55

In the '80s, David Chapman and Phil Agre were doing work within AI that was very compatible with the ecological and embodied cognition approach I've been describing. They produced a program, Pengi, that played a video game well enough (given the technology of the time) even though it had nothing like an internal representation of the game board and barely any persistent state at all. In this interview, David describes the source of their crazy ideas and how Pengi worked.

Pengi is more radically minimalist than what I've been thinking of as ecologically-inspired software design, so it makes a good introduction to the next episode.

Sources

Chapman links

Other

  • A recording of a Pengo game
  • The foundational text of ethnomethodology is notoriously (and, some – waves – think, gratuitously) opaque. I found Heritage's Garfinkel and Ethnomethodology far more readable. I've enjoyed the Em does Ca (conversational analysis) Youtube series. The episode on turn-construction units hits me where I live. She talks about how people know when, in a conversation, they're allowed to talk. I'm mildly bad at that in person. I'm somewhat worse when talking to a single person over video. I'm horrible at it when on a multiple-person conference call, with or without postage-stamp-sized video images of faces. 

Credits

The Pengo image is by Arcade Addiction. Retrieved from Wikipedia. Fair use.


Brian Marick hosts Oddly Influenced, a podcast that digs into the unusual and often overlooked connections between software development and the wider world. Each episode starts with a concept, theory, or practice that originated far from the realm of code-perhaps in sociology, theater, history, or urban planning-and traces its journey into the hands of software practitioners. The focus is on the concrete application: how these borrowed ideas were adapted, what problems they aimed to solve, and what actually happened when people tried them. You’ll hear about the successes, the surprising failures, and the messy, fascinating reality of translating an abstract principle into working practice. This isn’t about generic inspiration or vague parallels; it’s a detailed look at cross-disciplinary pollination, examining the mechanics of how influence actually works. The conversations are grounded and specific, avoiding hype to explore what we can genuinely learn from fields that don’t think in loops and logic. For anyone in technology or education curious about how innovation often comes from the edges, this podcast provides a unique and thoughtful perspective. It’s for listeners who enjoy deep dives into the history and sociology of their craft, who appreciate hearing stories that aren’t the usual case studies, and who are open to having their own thinking oddly influenced by the end of an episode.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 55

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