6: Attacked | When We All Get to Heaven

6: Attacked | When We All Get to Heaven

Author: Slate Podcasts November 12, 2025 Duration: 1:01:00

San Francisco’s gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn’t just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing  anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church and the minister. And when they finally solved the puzzle of who did it, the answer shocked the church. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-6.

The voices from the service after the first attack include

  • Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “If you come for one of us, you come for all of us.” 

  • Kevin Calegari, Dignity San Francisco – “Somebody by the name of Jesus…”

  • Harry Britt, San Francisco City Supervisor – “It hurts to be reminded of the power of evil.”

  • Gayle Orr-Smith, representative of the Mayor’s Office – “I am moved when I hear you say you are an angry people.” 

  • Rev. Duane Wilkerson, United Methodist Church – “But in the event that doubt has crept into your mind…” 

  • Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “And to the enemies who are attacking us…”

“The Call” is by George Herber with music by Vaughan Williams. The soloist is Bob Crocker.

“Nearer My God to Thee” is by Sarah Flowers Abrams.

Some links to good groups

Community United Against Violence – still working for safe communities for queer people. 

National Alliance on Mental Illness LGBTQI Information Page

The Shanti Project - is a pioneering nonprofit that builds human connections to reduce isolation, enhance health and well-being, and improve quality of life. It innovated enduring models of attentive companionship to people facing the end of life through their work during the height of the AIDS crisis. 

The Trevor Project – the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention non-profit organization for LGBTQ+ young people. 

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM

Special thanks to Kelsy Pacha, Dr. Janis Whitlock, and Dr. Mary Hunt for consulting with us about this episode. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. 


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.


There’s a particular kind of conversation that happens among friends after the main event winds down, where the real talk begins. That’s the spirit of Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast. Each month, this gathering from Slate Podcasts creates a space that feels less like a formal interview and more like a lively, insightful salon. The discussions here are rooted in the vibrant and ever-evolving realities of queer life, tackling everything from politics and pop culture to health, fitness, and sexuality with both intelligence and a genuine sense of camaraderie. You’ll hear hosts and guests unpack the issues animating LGBTQ communities, often from angles you might not have considered, blending sharp analysis with personal stories. The result is a podcast that deepens your understanding while never losing its warmth or wit. It’s a colorful, thoughtful dialogue that invites you to listen in and feel like part of the conversation, offering both clarity on complex topics and the simple pleasure of connecting with smart perspectives on what it means to live openly and authentically.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast
Podcast Episodes
Surviving Hate and Finding Joy as a Trans Teen with Nico Lang [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 40:28
Outward hosts Bryan Lowder and Christina Cauterucci sit down with reporter and author Nico Lang to chat about their new book ‘American Teenager: How Trans Kids Are Surviving Hate and Finding Joy in a Turbulent Era’. Nico…
Fighting for Non-Binary Inclusivity in Athletics with Cal Calamia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:00
In this episode, Outward hosts Jules Gill-Peterson, Bryan Lowder, and Christina Cauterucci sit down with non-binary marathoner Cal Calamia to talk about their journey into competitive racing. Cal shares how they first go…
The LGBTQ Moments and Misses at the DNC with Madeline Ducharme [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 28:02
In this episode, guest host Daisy Rosario talks to ‘What’s Next’ producer Madeline Ducharme about her experience at the DNC. They break down the queerest moments and examine the Democratic party’s queer agenda. Hosted on…
Could the Kids Online Safety Act Harm Queer Youth? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 40:37
This week Bryan, Jules, and Christina are joined by reporter Jasmine Mithani to talk about the Kids Online Safety Act. While protecting children from harmful material online seems like a win for everyone, some LGBTQ orga…
Dating Friends and Understanding Desire with Myisha Battle [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:15
This week, Jules and Bryan are joined by dating coach and host of the KCRW podcast How’s Your Sex Life, Myisha Battle. Myisha covers dating friends, understanding your own desire, and making connections in the real world…
Collecting LGBT+ History with Corey Serrant [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:07
This week, Jules sits down with Art Specialist Corey Serrant from Swann Auction Galleries to chat about pieces from their upcoming LGBTQ+ Art, Material Culture & History auction and how they found the art in the first pl…
Is Telehealth the Answer for Gender Affirming Care? with Sohini Desai [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:42
This week Jules speaks with journalist Sohini Desai about their latest article for Slate ‘Trans Health Care Is Under Attack. But Are Concierge Providers Really the Solution?’ Together they break down what these services…
Project 2025 with Orion Rummler [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 23:35
This week Bryan sits down with reporter Orion Rummler to break down Project 2025, conservative 920-page policy blueprint for a second Trump term. Orion’s article ‘What is Project 2025? Here’s the Heritage Foundation’s vi…