Interlude: Tired of Dying | When We All Get to Heaven

Interlude: Tired of Dying | When We All Get to Heaven

Author: Slate Podcasts November 16, 2025 Duration: 30:40

The Sunday after Magic Johnson announced his HIV-status, Jim Mitulski preached a sermon on being tired of people dying. We’re sharing it as an interlude, a pause, and an immersion into one moment in AIDS’ bleak midwinter. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/interlude.

In the sermon Rev. Mitulski refers to ARC. That means AIDS-Related Complex, a diagnostic category meant to indicate an earlier stage of HIV infection than AIDS. It was common in the period to hear references to both AIDS and ARC. 

“Old Devil Time” is by Pete Seeger. The AIDS verses are by MCC San Francisco congregant Paul Francis. 

You can see Magic Johnson's press release, announcing his HIV status here

The biblical passage Rev. Mitulski is preaching on is John 11:1-44.

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When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups:

AIDS Healthcare Foundation – provides medical care and support for people living with HIV/AIDS and preventative care for people at risk for contracting it. 

The Magic Johnson Foundation – founded to address HIV/AIDS. Expanded to include education and community engagement. 

San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV. 

POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).
Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.


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There’s a particular kind of conversation that happens among friends after the main event winds down, where the real talk begins. That’s the spirit of Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast. Each month, this gathering from Slate Podcasts creates a space that feels less like a formal interview and more like a lively, insightful salon. The discussions here are rooted in the vibrant and ever-evolving realities of queer life, tackling everything from politics and pop culture to health, fitness, and sexuality with both intelligence and a genuine sense of camaraderie. You’ll hear hosts and guests unpack the issues animating LGBTQ communities, often from angles you might not have considered, blending sharp analysis with personal stories. The result is a podcast that deepens your understanding while never losing its warmth or wit. It’s a colorful, thoughtful dialogue that invites you to listen in and feel like part of the conversation, offering both clarity on complex topics and the simple pleasure of connecting with smart perspectives on what it means to live openly and authentically.
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