Ending Pill Shaming: How Psychedelics and Pharmaceuticals Can Both Support Healing with Erica Zelfand, ND

Ending Pill Shaming: How Psychedelics and Pharmaceuticals Can Both Support Healing with Erica Zelfand, ND

Author: Lynn Marie Morski, MD, JD December 18, 2024 Duration: 45:42

In this episode, Erica Zelfand, ND joins to discuss the important topic of pill shaming in psychedelic communities and how psychedelic medicine and traditional pharmaceuticals can both support healing. Dr. Erica Zelfand specializes in integrative mental health, bridging the gaps between conventional and alternative medicine. In addition to seeing patients in private practice, she also teaches facilitation internationally and leads retreats through Right to Heal.

In this conversation, Dr. Zelfand tackles the issue of pill shaming in psychedelic communities, showing why this rhetoric falls short and ultimately harms patients. She discusses complementary roles for psychedelic and traditional pharmaceutical medicines, suggesting that a medicine like ketamine may be particularly effective in contexts of acute intervention, whereas an SSRI antidepressant may be most effective for maintenance. Dr. Zelfand notes, however, that drug-drug interactions can be a significant concern and stresses the need for medical expertise and supervision in the context of concomitant usage of pharmaceuticals and psychedelics. In closing, she emphasizes that what is ultimately important is that patients are able to progress in healing, and any tools that are able to safely and effectively support this goal have an important role to play and should not be denigrated. 

 

In this episode you'll hear:

  • The pill shaming rhetoric in psychedelic and cannabis communities
  • Pharmaceutical contraindications to psychedelic therapy and the necessity of medical supervision for tapering off such medications
  • Why comparing traditional antidepressant pharmaceuticals to psychedelic medicines is often an apples to oranges comparison
  • The issues with "no pain, no gain" rhetoric in healing
  • Psychiatric support for processing repressed memories uncovered during psychedelic journeys

 

Quotes:

"When I went into medicine, I actually specifically went into integrative medicine, functional medicine, because I didn't like that patients were being in this position of having to choose: the conventional route or the alternative medicine route. Both routes have their merits and both routes have their shortcomings and I felt like we all deserve to be able to access both and have it be an integrated model." [3:06]

"The only form of ketamine that is FDA approved for depression—which is Spravato—is only approved in the context in which the person is also taking an oral antidepressant." [20:48]

"We have data showing that if you feel really really freaked out and anxious during your [psychedelic] trip, your outcomes aren't necessarily as good. And the biggest predictor of having a positive experience is actually feeling awe. You don't have to do the ego death thing, but if you can feel awe, if you can feel inspiration during a trip, your outcomes are better. And there's even data showing that individuals who are on an SSRI and then trip—they may actually have better outcomes than people who don't take medication." [24:12]

"I think part of this trepidation is we don't want to harm anybody through a dangerous, or potentially lethal, drug-drug interaction. That's one thing. It's another thing to be like 'yeah but if you're using these [pharmaceutical] drugs you're doing it wrong and you're not healing right.' And I think the one often is used as a camouflage for the other—and they're two separate things." [38:59]

 

Links:

Dr. Zelfan's website

Dr. Zelfand on Instagram

Dr. Zelfand on Twitter

Dr. Zelfan on LinkedIn

Right to Heal website

Psychedelic pill-shaming article by Jules Evans and Shayam Suseelan

Previous episode: Integrating Challenging Psychedelic Experiences with Keith Kurlander, MA

Previous episode: Warning Signs When Selecting a Psychedelic Facilitator with Juliana Mulligan

Previous episode: How to Choose a Psychedelic Facilitator or Retreat Center with Joël Brierre

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

 


Exploring the frontier of mind and medicine, the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski delves into the complex world of psychedelic substances and their potential to heal. Hosted by Lynn Marie Morski, a physician and attorney, this podcast navigates the intricate intersection of cutting-edge science, clinical practice, and evolving policy. Each episode brings a grounded, expert perspective to conversations about psilocybin, MDMA, ketamine, LSD, ayahuasca, ibogaine, and other compounds, moving beyond hype to examine the real-world implications of this therapeutic renaissance. Listeners will hear detailed discussions on the latest peer-reviewed research, practical insights from medical professionals integrating these approaches, and thoughtful analysis of the legal landscape shaping access. The dialogue is rooted in a commitment to safety, ethics, and evidence, offering a clear-eyed look at both the profound promise and the challenges inherent in psychedelic medicine. Whether you're a healthcare provider, a patient, a researcher, or simply intellectually curious, this podcast provides an essential, nuanced resource for understanding how these ancient and modern substances are reshaping perspectives on mental health, consciousness, and treatment. It’s a space for serious inquiry, where complex questions about healing, neuroscience, and society are met with informed, accessible conversation.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski
Podcast Episodes
Who Is a Good Candidate for Ibogaine? with Fernando Rivas, MD [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:32
In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Fernando Rivas, MD, joins to unpack the safety and screening considerations for ibogaine therapy. Dr. Rivas is an emergency physician with over 15 years of clinical ex…
Encore Episode: Psychedelics and Breathwork with Kyle Buller [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:58
This encore episode of the Psychdelic Medicine Podcast features a conversation with Kyle Buller on psychedelics and breathwork. Kyle is co-founder and host of the Psychedelics Today podcast and he has studied breathwork…
Psychedelics and Psychosis with Alexander Lebedev, MD, PhD [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:09
In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Alexander Lebedev, MD, PhD joins to discuss psychedelic medicine and psychosis. Dr. Lebedev is a physician-scientist, medical AI engineer, and entrepreneur working at…
Psychedelics and GLP-1s with Arsalan Azam, MD [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 36:22
In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Arsalan Azam, MD joins to unpack the intersection between psychedelics and GLP-1s. Dr. Azam, founder of Daydream MD, completed his residency in Emergency Medicine at t…
Psilocybin vs. Ketamine with Dori Lewis, LPC [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:11
In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Dori Lewis, MA, MEd, LPC-S returns to discuss the differences between psilocybin and ketamine. Dori is the Clinical Director of Elemental Psychedelics and Owner/Operat…
Choosing the Right Ketamine Clinic for You with Katie Fassbinder, MD [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:19
In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Katie Fassbinder, MD joins to explore how to choose the right ketamine clinic. Dr. Fassbinder is the Faculty Medical Lead for ketamine-assisted psychotherapy training…
The Future of Psychedelic Medicine with Ismail Lourido Ali, JD [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:24
In the 200th episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Ismail Lourido Ali, JD joins to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine. Ismail serves as MAPS Co-Executive Director and has been actively participating in the…
Psychedelics and Neurodiversity with Dr. WaiFung Tsang, DClinPsy [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:31
In this episode, Dr. WaiFung Tsang, DClinPsy joins to discuss the intersection of psychedelics and neurodiversity. Dr. Tsang is a clinical research psychologist from Hong Kong, musician, and student of Shipibo curanderis…