Mission vs. Ego: The Dangers of Narcissistic Leadership

Mission vs. Ego: The Dangers of Narcissistic Leadership

Author: Vox Media Podcast Network April 2, 2026 Duration: 1:02:59
This week, Brené and Adam are live at SXSW! They explore why so many people are vulnerable to narcissistic leaders. The conversation covers the conditions that breed narcissistic leadership, the roles of shame and fear, and how to survive a narcissistic boss, and what it means to lead with mission over ego. You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction 3:14 - Why People Are Vulnerable to Narcissistic Leaders 12:21 - Shame-Based Fear 18:04 - Do We Think About Emotions Wrong? 19:21 - Undue Credit and the Narcissistic Leader 26:00 - Mission Over Ego 29:52 - How to Manage a Narcissistic Boss 39:18 - Anxiety as a Path to Narcissism 47:45 - Judging Impairs Judgement 1:02:20 - Closing Show Notes: Adam Grant, Why We Fall for Narcissistic Leaders, Starting in Grade School, NYT 2025. O'Reilly et al. 2001 When 'Me' Trumps 'We': Narcissistic Leaders and the Cultures They Create, 2021. Brené Brown, "Shame shields" in The Dare to Lead Glossary: Key Language skills, tools, and practices. (pg. 15-16) Bagozzi et al. 2003 (A study on cross-cultural differences in reaction to shame) Brené Brown, Dan Pink on The Power of Regret, Dare to Lead, 2022 We're The Millers (Trailer) 2013, Awkward Roadtrip Moments: No Ragrets George Saunders, "Failures of Kindness", Convocation Speech, 2013 Emily Grijalva et al. 2020 (A study of the impact of narcissim on NBA team performance) How Brené Brown and Lumen CEO Kate Johnson Sparked This Telecom Comeback, WSJ Leadership Institute, 2025 (11:25) Adam Grant, Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016 Watts et al, 2014 (A study of grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism in U.S. Presidents) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Imagine a conversation where the goal isn't to win, but to wander. That's the space created in The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant. Each week, research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant meet not as definitive experts, but as dedicated practitioners of a more thoughtful dialogue. In a culture that often confuses loudness for clarity, this podcast from the Vox Media Podcast Network offers a different rhythm. You'll hear them challenge their own assumptions and gently interrogate complex ideas from society and culture, demonstrating that true understanding often begins with admitting what you don't know. Their discussions are a practical masterclass in intellectual humility, focusing on the power of better questions rather than the delivery of tidy answers. Listening feels like being invited into a rare, thoughtful exchange where curiosity is the highest currency. The result is a series of conversations that don't simplify the world's messiness but engage with it more honestly, encouraging everyone who tunes in to reconsider how they learn, think, and connect with others. It’s a weekly reminder that growth is found in the nuance, and that some of the most important discoveries start with a simple, "I wonder."
Author: Language: English Episodes: 95

The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
Podcast Episodes
Brené and Adam Grant on Rewarding Effort With Time [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:15
In the final episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam discuss the problem with rewarding all effort as excellence. Instead, leaders should reward effort that is not leading to success or…
Brené and Adam Grant on the Skillsets of Empathy [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:09
In the fifth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam break down the skillsets of empathy, empathy misses, and how empathy is trickier than walking in someone else’s shoes. They discuss…
Brené and Adam Grant on Empathy vs. Enmeshment [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 32:19
In the fourth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam explore the attack on empathy, the difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy, and what separates empathy from enme…
Brené and Adam Grant on the Paradox Tug of War and Leadership Theater [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 36:26
In part two of a special series with Adam Grant on Brené’s new book, Strong Ground, Brené and Adam discuss the far and near enemies of generosity, the tug of war of paradox, and sports as leadership theater. They explore…
Brené on Lock-In and Lock-Through Power [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:33
In this special Dare to Lead episode, Brené shares one of her favorite chapters from the Strong Ground audiobook called Lock-In and Lock-Through Power. Brené uses the metaphor of a boat lock to explore the tricky work-to…
Brené and Adam Grant on Finding Our Strong Ground [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:34
In the first episode of a special series on Brené's new book, Strong Ground, Brené and Adam dig into the origins of Strong Ground, and what values clarity can mean for individuals, teams, and organizations. They take on…
Lisa Gevelber on Technology and AI for Good [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:15
In this episode, Brené and Lisa discuss how we can work to close the digital divide and ensure more people have access to technology, what it means in AI speak to have a human in the loop, and the incredible ways teacher…