Why Toughness and Kindness Need Each Other | The Curiosity Shop

Why Toughness and Kindness Need Each Other | The Curiosity Shop

Author: Vox Media Podcast Network June 4, 2026 Duration: 1:09:21
The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
SocietySociety & CultureCulture
In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do. Victor Wembanyama on having Spurs legend David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the building - 2026, Yahoo Sports  Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast) Victor Wembanyama Emotional After Spurs Advance to the NBA Finals - 2026, Bleacher Report  Goals research summary - Gail Matthews, 2015, Dominican University of California Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, Gotham Books Ring Theory Helps Us Bring Comfort In - Elena Sandler, 2025, Psychology Today  Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book)  U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & Adam Grant on Loneliness - Murthy & Grant, Authors@Wharton, 2024, YouTube  ​Andrew Garfield on grief and the loss of his mother – CBS, 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert​ National Survey of Gun Policy - Center for Gun Violence Solutions, 2025, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health  Empathic Joy and the Empathy-Altruism Hypothesis - Batson et al, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001 Human empathy through the lens of social neuroscience - Decety & Lamm, 2006, The Scientific World Journal  ​The Making of an American​ – Jacob Riis, 1901, Macmillan  ​The Coach–Athlete Relationship Questionnaire (CART-Q)​ – Sophia Jowett, 2004, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports  ​Bad Is Stronger Than Good​ – Roy Baumeister, 2001, Review of General Psychology  ​Scarred for the Rest of My Career?​ – Erica Carleton (with Julian Barling), 2016, Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology  The evolution of shame and its display - Landers & Sznycer, 2022, Evolutionary human sciences  ​Moral Emotions and Moral Behavior​ – June Tangney, 2007, Annual Review of Psychology The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain - Brené Brown and David Eagleman, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast Unlocking the Mysteries of our Brain - Chris Anderson with David Eagleman, 2022, The TED Interview Winning coaches’ locker room secret - Blanding on the research of Barry Staw, 2019, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Imagine a conversation where the goal isn't to win, but to wander. That's the space created in The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant. Each week, research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant meet not as definitive experts, but as dedicated practitioners of a more thoughtful dialogue. In a culture that often confuses loudness for clarity, this podcast from the Vox Media Podcast Network offers a different rhythm. You'll hear them challenge their own assumptions and gently interrogate complex ideas from society and culture, demonstrating that true understanding often begins with admitting what you don't know. Their discussions are a practical masterclass in intellectual humility, focusing on the power of better questions rather than the delivery of tidy answers. Listening feels like being invited into a rare, thoughtful exchange where curiosity is the highest currency. The result is a series of conversations that don't simplify the world's messiness but engage with it more honestly, encouraging everyone who tunes in to reconsider how they learn, think, and connect with others. It’s a weekly reminder that growth is found in the nuance, and that some of the most important discoveries start with a simple, "I wonder."
Author: Language: English Episodes: 99

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The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
Podcast Episodes
Exploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:17:32
In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant unpack the paradoxes that shape our lives, relationships, leadership, and decision-making. They explore the Abilene Paradox, the Stockdale Paradox, why gr…
Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:50
Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s…
Are You a Preacher, Prosecutor, Scientist, or Politician? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:00
Do you find yourself defaulting to “Preacher” mode when you’re under pressure, or starting to act like a “Prosecutor” when someone challenges your ideas? Brené and Adam unpack four mental modes – Preacher, Prosecutor, Po…
What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:50
In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the return‑to‑office debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, th…
The Emotion Few Talk About, But Many Feel [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:44
From classrooms and locker rooms to workplaces and social media, Adam and Brené trace how shame and humiliation are used to control behavior and even fuel violence. They explore what causes shame, why our self-protective…
Uncertainty is Not the Enemy [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:08:12
Today's episode is about learning to sit with uncertainty. The episode opens with a discussion of listener questions on how to handle risk, the ingredients of a great apology, and why people stay loyal to relationships a…
Overconfidence and the Art of Knowing Yourself [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:44
What happens when your confidence outruns your competence? Brené and Adam start with freestyle skiing champ Eileen Gu’s extraordinary Olympic press conference and use it to explore metacognition—how to notice your thinki…
Mission vs. Ego: The Dangers of Narcissistic Leadership [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:59
This week, Brené and Adam are live at SXSW! They explore why so many people are vulnerable to narcissistic leaders. The conversation covers the conditions that breed narcissistic leadership, the roles of shame and fear,…
How This Podcast Could Fail [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:50
Brené and Adam have a bracingly honest conversation about what could go wrong in their collaboration, and how to set new teams, partnerships, and friendships up for success. They discuss the science of avoiding failure a…

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