Mission vs. Ego: The Dangers of Narcissistic Leadership

Mission vs. Ego: The Dangers of Narcissistic Leadership

Author: Vox Media Podcast Network April 2, 2026 Duration: 1:02:59
This week, Brené and Adam are live at SXSW! They explore why so many people are vulnerable to narcissistic leaders. The conversation covers the conditions that breed narcissistic leadership, the roles of shame and fear, and how to survive a narcissistic boss, and what it means to lead with mission over ego. You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction 3:14 - Why People Are Vulnerable to Narcissistic Leaders 12:21 - Shame-Based Fear 18:04 - Do We Think About Emotions Wrong? 19:21 - Undue Credit and the Narcissistic Leader 26:00 - Mission Over Ego 29:52 - How to Manage a Narcissistic Boss 39:18 - Anxiety as a Path to Narcissism 47:45 - Judging Impairs Judgement 1:02:20 - Closing Show Notes: Adam Grant, Why We Fall for Narcissistic Leaders, Starting in Grade School, NYT 2025. O'Reilly et al. 2001 When 'Me' Trumps 'We': Narcissistic Leaders and the Cultures They Create, 2021. Brené Brown, "Shame shields" in The Dare to Lead Glossary: Key Language skills, tools, and practices. (pg. 15-16) Bagozzi et al. 2003 (A study on cross-cultural differences in reaction to shame) Brené Brown, Dan Pink on The Power of Regret, Dare to Lead, 2022 We're The Millers (Trailer) 2013, Awkward Roadtrip Moments: No Ragrets George Saunders, "Failures of Kindness", Convocation Speech, 2013 Emily Grijalva et al. 2020 (A study of the impact of narcissim on NBA team performance) How Brené Brown and Lumen CEO Kate Johnson Sparked This Telecom Comeback, WSJ Leadership Institute, 2025 (11:25) Adam Grant, Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016 Watts et al, 2014 (A study of grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism in U.S. Presidents) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Imagine a conversation where the goal isn't to win, but to wander. That's the space created in The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant. Each week, research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant meet not as definitive experts, but as dedicated practitioners of a more thoughtful dialogue. In a culture that often confuses loudness for clarity, this podcast from the Vox Media Podcast Network offers a different rhythm. You'll hear them challenge their own assumptions and gently interrogate complex ideas from society and culture, demonstrating that true understanding often begins with admitting what you don't know. Their discussions are a practical masterclass in intellectual humility, focusing on the power of better questions rather than the delivery of tidy answers. Listening feels like being invited into a rare, thoughtful exchange where curiosity is the highest currency. The result is a series of conversations that don't simplify the world's messiness but engage with it more honestly, encouraging everyone who tunes in to reconsider how they learn, think, and connect with others. It’s a weekly reminder that growth is found in the nuance, and that some of the most important discoveries start with a simple, "I wonder."
Author: Language: English Episodes: 95

The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
Podcast Episodes
Brené with James Clear on Atomic Habits, Part 2 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:53
It’s Part 2 of our two-part episode with James Clear, author of Atomic Habits, which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and been translated into more than 50 languages. In Part 1 of our series, we talked about…
Brené with James Clear on Atomic Habits, Part 1 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:00
Even before James Clear and I met, I knew this would be a two-part series. I just had so many questions for the author of Atomic Habits, which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and been translated into more t…
Brené with Dr. Maya Shankar on Courage in the Midst of Change [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:15:10
I am talking with Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist who served as chair of the Social and Behavioral Science Team during the Obama administration and served as the first behavioral science adviser to the United Nat…
Brené and Barrett on BRAVING Trust, Part 2 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:21
Barrett is back to talk more about trust and how we approach it at our company. We call it BRAVING trust — BRAVING is the acronym we use for the seven attributes of trust. And in Part 2 of this two-part series, we really…
Brené and Barrett on BRAVING Trust, Part 1 of 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:29
In this episode, Barrett Guillen, chief of staff at Brené Brown Education and Research Group, is joining me to talk about trust, what trust means, and how we approach it at our company. We call it BRAVING trust — BRAVING…
Brené with Liz Wiseman on Impact Players [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:11:08
Liz Wiseman is an author, a researcher, and an executive adviser, and we are talking about her new book, Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact. Liz has done research across organizat…
Brené with Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan on Imposter Syndrome [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:12:49
I’m talking with Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan about imposter syndrome and the articles they have written together on the topic, including “Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome,” which is among the Harvar…